Feb. 19, 2025

Capturing Prime Members in 2025 and Beyond

Capturing Prime Members in 2025 and Beyond
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As economic conditions shift, financial institutions must adapt their lending strategies to balance growth, risk, and liquidity. A “Slow and Grow” approach is emerging as a sustainable way to navigate today’s market while expanding financial services.

This week, host Barry Roach welcomes Michelle Goeppner, Vice President of Consumer Lending & Product Strategy at Vantage West Credit Union, to explore how lending programs are evolving post-COVID. They discuss the role of AI-powered underwriting, flexible loan programs, and the importance of internal alignment in driving loan growth. Plus, they dive into how financial institutions are expanding their reach beyond state borders while enhancing community impact.


Join us as we discuss:

  • How AI-driven lending programs help manage risk, return, and volume
  • Strategies for deposit growth, cross-selling, and member onboarding
  • The financial wellness programs turning borrowers into savers
  • Innovative mortgage solutions tackling housing affordability
WEBVTT

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Hi, I'm Barry Roach, host of Leaders in Lending, brought

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to you by Upstart. The following is a conversation originally

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aired on an America's Credit Union webinar late in twenty

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twenty four, titled Capturing Prime Members in twenty twenty five

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and Beyond. I chatted with Michelle Gapner, the vice president

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of Consumer Lending and proc Strategy at Vantage West, a

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three billion asset credit union base in Tucson, Arizona. Michelle

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and I discussed balancing loan growth with limited liquidity, growing

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prime members, and working to expand those relationships. Thanks for listening,

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and I hope you enjoy it.

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All right, everybody, let's get started. Hello and welcome to

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America's Credit Union's webinar Capturing Prime Members in twenty twenty

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four and beyond. My name is Adam Right, and I'm

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a manager of online learning Products at America's Credit Unions.

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If you haven't already, feel free to download today's presentation handouts.

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You'll find them available under the resource tab and you're

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zoom tuomar. As a quick reminder, please keep yourself muted

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during today's presentation. If you have questions during the presentation,

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please enter it up in the chat. We'll be taking

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questions at the end. We are happy to have Michelle

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Wepner and Barry Roach sharing their expertise with us today.

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Michelle is the VP of Consumer Lending and Product Strategy

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Advantage West Credit Union. With over twenty years in financial

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services experience, Michelle has accumulated an extensive track record of

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taking on the challenge and responsibility for high profile product marketing,

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strategy and lending issues. Barry is a senior account manager

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at Upstart with over thirty years of experience in the

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financial services industry. Arry has proven leadership of large, multifaceted

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teams of financial professionals which delivered above market financial results. Previously,

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as President and CEO of Water and Power Community Credit

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Union in Los Angeles, Berry led the organization to achieve

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significant asset growth and improvement and financial strength while improving

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all aspects of the digital experience. Without further ado, I

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will turn things over to you. Thank you Michelle and

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Berry for.

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Joining us today. Thank you, Adam, slide please and next

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slide please. Hi Michelle, nice to see you. Please take

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it away and then we'll get into the discussion for today.

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Thank you all right, Thank you Berry. Thank you, Adam,

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thanks for having me.

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Hello everyone. As Adam said, I'm.

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Michelle Gafner, the vice president of Consumer Lending and Product

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Strategy from Vantage West Credit Union. So Vantage West Credit

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Union is based in Tucson, Arizona. We have military roots

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as we serve the Tucson airmen and their families back

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in the fifties, and now we have evolved to a

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state chartered credit union known as Vantage West with just

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under two hundred thousand members. We're three billion in assets,

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and we've got eighteen branch locations across Tucson and the

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Phoenix area.

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Great. Thank you, Michelle, and thanks for joining us today.

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Just for the audience. Vanjewest has been a valued partner

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of Upstart for the past couple of years. Michelle and

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I work very closer together. We speak if not, if

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not monthly, I mean usually once a week or so.

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There's a reason for Michelle and I to get together.

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What we're talking about today is really about capturing prime

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members in twenty twenty five and beyond, and I think

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the experience with Vanage West, they've already captured a whole

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bunch of prime members since they came on as Upstart

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partners back in later twenty twenty two. So since that happened, Michelle,

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let's just talk a little bit about when you started

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partnering with US, economic conditions evolved quite a bit. I mean,

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we were at that point just coming out of sort

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of COVID restrictions and stimulus and this ramp of deposits

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and lots of liquidity to sort all of a sudden,

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liquidity somewhat seized roughly six months after that, and so

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you know, where you maybe had some higher loan growth

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projections in later twenty two, that kind of quickly shifted.

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So maybe suare a little bit about about how you

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were adjusting not just the yepstart program, but you know,

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all your loan growth goals from when liquidy kind of

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got a little tighter and then as it started to

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come back, because we have certainly seen in the past year,

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how how deposits have come back a little bit as well.

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Yeah.

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Absolutely, Well, to say it's been an interesting lending environment

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the last few years would be an understatement, and it

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certainly has been since we started partnering, Barry. I think

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in the fall of twenty twenty two. I think we've

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had what ten or so rate hikes since then, and

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least as you mentioned, yeah, we had some liquidity constraints,

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as I'm sure many watching and listening did as well.

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We had to intentionally slow down our lending, which is

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always a hard message as you know, a lender and

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an originator to tell our teams we've got to slow

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it down. But thankfully we've been able to turn it

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back on. And you know, with the Upstart partnership, we

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went with the slow and grow strategy. So we started

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in our market, Arizona, with you know, originating a few

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million a month and then testing it out, you know,

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to see how it worked, how did it work for us,

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how did it work for our members, what was the feedback,

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And then we steadily, you know, started ramping up volume,

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you know, both because one getting our feet wet with

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the program, but two, as you mentioned, the changing environment.

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And then from there we started to expand markets. And

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I think one of the things I love so much

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about this program are the levers that we can control,

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and you know, being a control freak, I want to

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be able to do that.

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So whether it's adjusting our net return or.

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Our expected loss rate, our volume, our max loan size,

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that's The great thing about this program is the customizable

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of flexibility.

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Great and so the partnership that you have internally, because

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I know you and the lending group you always have

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those aggressive goals, right, I mean, you're you're always trying

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to put more money on the street. You're trying to

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find ways of not just this isn't just a financial

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thing with show You're not just trying to sort of

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grow the balance sheet. You're actually trying to help those

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members that you have with their next purchase need or

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wherever the case may be. But talk a little bit

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about that partnership, like, like how that's sort of the

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catalyst for you to be able to realize and recognize

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these great loan growth goals you have. You also need

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to have the support of the risk side of the

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business and the finance side of the business. So maybe

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talk a little bit about about how and you and

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the rest of the lending folks have been able to

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sort of make sure everyone's served riding on the same

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tracks as the train.

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Yeah.

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I think one of the things we learned through this

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partnership specifically was the importance of bringing on your key

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partners across the credit union early and often.

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To get comfortable with it. You know, I think everyone involved.

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In community lending would love it if there were endless

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volume potential within their geographic footprint, but unfortunately that's not

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the reality.

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And so we took the approach.

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Of expanding beyond Arizona so that we have the funds

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to do more within our community. And I think that

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was a big challenge for some folks internally to adjust to.

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You know, we're a local credit union, why would we

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be partnering with this fintech? Why would we be going

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to other markets? But it was really helping to tell

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the story that we could better serve our community if

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we have those dollars to do so. And so sometimes

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you have to go outside to get those dollars.

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So growth beyond the traditional branch footprint or feel amageably

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you have as a catalyst to be able to make

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those investment at the revenue, to make the investments to

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get a better value proposition for those that are sort

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of inside. So there's many ways of doing it right,

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but I think you guys have kind of figured out

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a really good formula for it. So I know you've

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got other fintech partnerships, not just Upstart you know, for

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several as well. And I do know that there's a

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bit of an evolution with you and your world. I mean,

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you were traditionally you're a lender, right and have been

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a lender for a lot of your career, and now

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it's like, okay, Michelle, you're doing such a great job

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with lending. We usually look after deposits now, which is

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you know, really almost flipping the hat a little bit.

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But I would think a similar sort of an approach

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or or a similar sort of guide guidance in terms

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of how you would try and find those new positive

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opportunities to help you with those those lending opportunities. So

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maybe tell the audience a little bit about that evolution

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within Vantaged West and kind of how you've seen sort

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of similarities I guess in your approach as you're looking

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at getting deposits as well.

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Yeah, well, you know, we're broadly speaking, fintech is a

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critical part of our growth strategy Advantage West. So while

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you all were one of our first partners, we've since

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added other partners for auto refinancing, loan decisioning, improving our

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digital experience, and so you know, now with deposits, we're

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we're really focusing on how we grow that we have

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advantage West. What's called our rally cry, and it's where

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everyone focuses on one strategic priority across the Credit Union. Yes,

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everyone has a day job and other things they're responsible for,

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but the rally cry is the one thing that we

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get everyone to rally around and really focus on.

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And that right now for the next six to nine

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months is deposits.

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So we're looking at a whole bunch of things between

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a refresh of our deposit products to a new digital

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account opening solution, digital engagement tools.

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So that is a.

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Huge focus for us, and of course, as you know,

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that allows us on the other side of the house

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to keep originating.

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Absolutely. Yeah, So I love the idea of a rally cry.

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I can't say that the creditings that that that I ran,

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we kind of had. We didn't call it a rally cry,

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but we tried to do a similar sort of thing,

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like what is what is the one topic or the

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one focus on our business that we can all rally around.

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And and maybe that's a in an indirect way, start

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answering the last question about how do you get everyone

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on the same page. The finance folks, the risk folks,

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and so on and so forth. Right, So just the

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it's maybe it's a little too early, sort I share

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some successes with that, Michelle, But you know you've talked

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about sort of some product development and redevelopment and so on.

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You know, what, what are the projections for this? And

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and I know this is not just a six to

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nine month thing, because I'm assuming that you're building something

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that you think we'll have some sustainability going forward into

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twenty six and beyond from there.

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Yeah, well, we're pretty early in this rally cry. This

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is our second one since we've gone to this strategy.

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So our first one was around reducing operational expense, and

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at first it was a little confusing to people, but

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then it just became this idea of when I have

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to make a trade off of where to invest my

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time or my resources, you'll.

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Lean into the rally cry.

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And so that rally cry was so successful we were

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able to get our op X down substantially that we said, okay,

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let's try it again.

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What's the next big focus? And so now it's deposit.

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So don't have any early I guess metrics or anything

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to share just yet. But you know, come back in

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a few months, and I'm sure we will, but I

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will say that it's done a great job of unifying

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everyone across the Credit Union and focusing on one specific

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thing perfect.

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Yeah.

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So, and it's unfair maybe to ask for sort of

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those metrics now with this new rale cry. But I'm

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glad you brought up with the operating expanse because it's

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something that we all say we keep an eye on.

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But you'd be surprised when you start to look under

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the couch cushions and see all those revenue leakage opportunity

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or or or other expanses that just you know, sort

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of have always been persisting within the Credit Union. Yeah,

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but quick opportunities, right, so that's kind of a fueling

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I guess some of the other investment and growth opportunities

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that you're trying to do. Absolutely all right, let's talk

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a little bit then. You know about one of the

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key aspects of the partnership that you've had with Upstart.

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It's not just finding new borers, but you've also got

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a bunch of brand new members, right, so starting in

237
00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:56.000
Arizona within your traditional field and membership now sort of

238
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expanding beyond, So thousands of new members have also sort

239
00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:02.759
of come in to the crediting. Can you describe a

240
00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:06.759
little bit maybe around how you've been treating those new

241
00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:10.080
member opportunities, like what's been sort of working to leverage

242
00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:14.480
to get that next product service or is there a

243
00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:18.159
way that you've been sort of segmenting these new members

244
00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.720
coming in that's been particularly successful for you and the team.

245
00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:26.480
Yeah, so we've added I think over seven thousand not

246
00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:28.840
new members so the Credit Union as a result of

247
00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:33.039
this program, folks that we likely wouldn't have reached otherwise.

248
00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:36.679
And the performance has been excellent, over ninety seven percent

249
00:13:36.759 --> 00:13:41.200
er in repayment, and we've definitely seen a shift in

250
00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:45.440
the profile since we've added the Prime program. But yeah,

251
00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:50.360
we have three target segments at Vantage WES. One is

252
00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:54.879
what we call our Prosperous Arizonans, so there are fifty

253
00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:59.360
five plus super prime borrowers. And it's interesting as I

254
00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:03.679
was thinking about our segments and the programs that upstart offers,

255
00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:09.879
there's an absolute alignment. So the Prime program serves those

256
00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:14.240
prosperous Arizonas. And then we have our middle market, which

257
00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:18.320
is forty five to fifty four AB credit. So you know,

258
00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:24.039
prime borrower and those folks align nicely with the traditional program.

259
00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:28.000
And then lastly we have our aspiring so younger borrower,

260
00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:33.200
maybe new to credit range of folks in the credit spectrum.

261
00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:37.519
And as a CDFI designated credit union, we're always looking

262
00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:40.120
for ways to extend credit to the low and moderate

263
00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:43.480
income borrower. And as you know, we've been in talks

264
00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:48.080
about the LMI Load to Moderate Income program and so

265
00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:51.559
that would help us attract those borrowers and be able

266
00:14:51.559 --> 00:14:55.080
to lend deeper and invest in that group.

267
00:14:56.600 --> 00:14:59.480
Yeah, I mean, it's take advantage of those programs that

268
00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:03.440
are available for you with cdf I. The reason for

269
00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:06.519
cdf I is is very altruistic. One is to try

270
00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:09.039
and and sort of lift up those folks that are

271
00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:12.960
in low and moderate income areas, either through education or

272
00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:17.879
through UH financial literacy or just simply meeting their product

273
00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:22.080
and service need where they are and hopefully sort of

274
00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:27.240
get them into a more prosperous surve financial situation. So

275
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:30.879
there's that aspect of it, but also, I mean financially,

276
00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:33.840
there's some great benefits and some great grants that can

277
00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:36.639
kind of come with that. CDFI programs evolved a little

278
00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:38.840
bit here. It used to be I think a little

279
00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:41.960
easier back when when I looked at you know, six

280
00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:44.559
seven years ago at my credit union to be able

281
00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:48.759
to to qualify. It's a little more difficult now. But

282
00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:53.480
are you finding that that with sort of organically within Arizona,

283
00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:57.639
that that you've had some successes with sort of breaking

284
00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:00.759
in through those those low moderate income areas we have.

285
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:04.039
Yeah, and that's you know, the bread and butter too

286
00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:08.120
of who we serve, and so that of course will

287
00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:10.799
continue to be a focus. And you know, you mentioned

288
00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:15.759
the difficulty with with CDFI, and of course we're finding

289
00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:20.600
that too. But we've since launched a very successful program

290
00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:26.080
on financial wellness. So it's a very robust program that

291
00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:28.799
a lot of our branch folks have been trained on

292
00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:32.919
to educate members. So you know, it's our goal to

293
00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:37.399
turn borrowers into savers, savers into investors. And so that's

294
00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:41.759
kind of you know, the stepping stone of that program.

295
00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:44.679
Right and and really fits in with your segmentation strategy

296
00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:47.879
because you're likely looking to sort of migrate some of

297
00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:51.799
these members through different segments right as they become more

298
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:56.120
prosperous and so on, and you know, today's load and

299
00:16:56.159 --> 00:17:00.000
model at income and maybe that younger demographic they're tomorrow's homeowners.

300
00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:02.960
You know, I live in southern California. It's really hard

301
00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:05.359
to break in as a first time home buyer in

302
00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:08.000
Southern California. It might be a little easier in Tucson

303
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:11.480
and in some of the lower moderate income areas across

304
00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.240
the country. But maybe talk a little bit about your

305
00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:18.960
approach that way for first time home buyers, given that

306
00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:22.200
you know, the price, the entry prices has gone up

307
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.200
from when we're five years ago where we were looking

308
00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:27.559
at you know, three and four percent thirty year mortgages

309
00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:29.960
and now that price is a little higher right now.

310
00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:34.799
So house Fans West are started managing through through all

311
00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:35.559
of that right now.

312
00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:39.960
Yeah, so my pre in the mortgage group, they've done

313
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:41.599
an excellent job of addressing that.

314
00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:44.519
We know, affordability is a huge problem. So there's they're

315
00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:47.200
offering some first time buyer programs.

316
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:52.119
They also have launched a forty year mortgage, so they're Yeah,

317
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.359
so they're really trying to address this problem that we

318
00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:58.640
know as nationwide it but it is a pretty big

319
00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:00.920
problem in the Tucson air Yeah, so that team has

320
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:05.319
been working feverishly to create new products and services for

321
00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:08.440
our members to be able to address it because we

322
00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:11.079
were hearing it a lot from challeng.

323
00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:13.559
I love that you've created a non QM product right

324
00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:20.960
that is definitely needed there and is specifically addressing those

325
00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:24.359
that cohort that that's trying to address. So kudos to

326
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:26.119
the Vantage West team for thinking sort of outside the

327
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:29.720
box on that and for having the support again across

328
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:32.680
the organization and your board directors to be able to

329
00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:36.119
sort of take on those sorts of things. That's great, Michelle.

330
00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:41.599
Any other sort of early results on expanding relationships with

331
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:46.359
it's been pretty early on the Prime program. So ups

332
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:49.240
are just introduced in July, and just for the audience,

333
00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:53.400
it's basically Upstart wants to make sure that we are

334
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:58.359
providing loan solutions for all Americans, not just for those

335
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:02.559
who the traditional credit scoring system may have loss in

336
00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:06.160
some way throughout their financial history, but really trying to

337
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:10.720
attract Prime members with really good products at a really

338
00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:14.839
good price that's that's attractive to them and advanced. It

339
00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:16.559
has been a partner on this Prime program now for

340
00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:19.480
three or four months. I mean it's really changed through

341
00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:22.799
the borrower and member profile for you in some respects.

342
00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:25.640
How is that feeling with your segmentation strategy then.

343
00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:31.119
Yeah, well, as I was saying, it fits with you know,

344
00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:36.680
all there's offerings. Each program that upstart has fits with

345
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:40.039
each of those segments nicely. And so you know, we

346
00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:43.480
started with the traditional program, of course, and the performance

347
00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:47.880
was excellent, and we want to lend deeper where we can,

348
00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:52.400
and as I mentioned, part of our strategy is to

349
00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.200
be able to lean into certain borrowers so that we

350
00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.200
can go deeper elsewhere and the prime programs us to

351
00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:02.519
do that. But yeah, we have seen a shift in

352
00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:08.839
the mix since launching that. So of course higher scores right,

353
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:12.680
lower expected loss rate. So it'll be interesting to see

354
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.759
how how those two programs play together, and then if

355
00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:19.000
we also introduce the LMI program.

356
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.000
But yeah, we've been it's early, but of course we've

357
00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:23.720
been with how it's performed so far.

358
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:27.119
And are you thinking maybe a different sort of marketing

359
00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:30.119
treatment to depending on where the border is coming from,

360
00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:32.960
So start of looking within Arizona and maybe maybe outside

361
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:36.039
of Arizona, LM I might have its own sort of approach.

362
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:39.400
These prime borders may have a different approach than those

363
00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:42.400
that may be in sort of a lower risk here

364
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:45.279
or higher risk here. I guess this case, maybe you know,

365
00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:47.039
maybe talk a little bit with your marketing team because

366
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:49.880
you've got to work pretty closely with them on making

367
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:53.920
sure that that those opportunities are kind of met with

368
00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:57.839
I think a relevant product or service outreach to them.

369
00:20:58.640 --> 00:20:59.079
Yeah.

370
00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:03.200
Absolutely, and you know that's one of the things.

371
00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:06.519
Admittedly that we were so focused on.

372
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:09.960
Growing and optimizing the program that we've not been as

373
00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:15.160
intentional with the cross selling and the onboarding, but it

374
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:18.079
is a huge focus for us in twenty twenty five.

375
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:23.279
And actually we're probably about a month away from launching

376
00:21:23.319 --> 00:21:26.920
an offer specifically to those that come in through the

377
00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:30.880
Upstart Journey, a very rich checking offer because now they're

378
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:31.920
part of our fold.

379
00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:34.440
We want to you know, welcome them.

380
00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:37.519
Into the member base and you know, hopefully they give

381
00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:41.200
us a try for other products and services. But yeah,

382
00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:45.279
I think, you know, with the different programs and our

383
00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:48.720
slow and grow strategy, we're going to continue to look

384
00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:54.400
to expand other markets. You know, we we were very

385
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.519
strategic about how we did that. We did states kind

386
00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:01.920
of bordering Arizona, as you know, we were very very

387
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:06.759
careful around that and We'll continue to expand, but again

388
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:10.799
monitoring and making sure that we're serving our targets. I've

389
00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:14.680
been reinvesting it back into the Tucson community.

390
00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:18.559
Right, And the checking relationship is still the anchor product, Michelle. Right,

391
00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:23.680
with all the evolution we've had in financial services, banks

392
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.680
and credit unions, free checking fifteen twenty years ago that

393
00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:30.359
was kind of the big thing. It is still the

394
00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:36.279
anchor product that I think most most financial consumers signify as, Hey,

395
00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:39.279
my main financial institution is where my checking account is.

396
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:42.880
And maybe it's less relevant now that that checking account

397
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:46.079
was opened at a branch a mile from my house.

398
00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:50.799
Because with an advantage West, you've got a pretty rich

399
00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:54.559
digital platform, right, Like I can be in southern California

400
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:58.839
and I can totally engage with your folks and pretty

401
00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:01.960
much get anything I need in the digital or even

402
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:07.319
over the phone. So it's with checking, it's not just

403
00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:11.759
with those new Upstart borders within Arizona. You're also kind

404
00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:14.400
of looking outside of the stafe borders as well.

405
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:17.039
Right, absolutely, Yeah.

406
00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:23.799
Yeah, that's good. One thing with Upstart. So for the audience,

407
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:26.359
So I worked at a credit union that was also

408
00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:30.400
an Upstar partner. We had expander field of membership to

409
00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:33.400
new county and southern California counties are pretty big, there's

410
00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:36.599
a big population in them, and so the one that

411
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:38.799
we expanded to had about two million people in it.

412
00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:42.200
And we actually use upstart to as one of our

413
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:45.519
first outreaches into that county so that we're able to

414
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:48.720
find a brand new Borowers brand and became brand new

415
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:50.880
members in that county. So really with sort of zero

416
00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:55.920
marketing spend for that particular project, we had successful in

417
00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:58.640
bringing in hundreds of new more borders and new members

418
00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:01.559
in that county pretty quick. And then the marketing team

419
00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:04.319
we're like, this is great, we can ab test different

420
00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:08.119
ways of different approaches for them. We didn't have as

421
00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:13.599
I think as as precise a segmentation program as you have,

422
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:17.079
which is probably a good enabler to make that as

423
00:24:17.079 --> 00:24:21.400
successful as possible. But yeah, I think cross sell is uh,

424
00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:24.880
those cross sell opportunities are so important and that catalyst

425
00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:26.519
for growth for you going forward.

426
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:27.319
Yeah.

427
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:30.400
Well, and you know, we see the feedback we get

428
00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:34.559
through you know, satisfaction surveys and folks saying this was

429
00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:37.079
such an easy experience, it was such a great loan

430
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:41.839
experience that it's it's a great opportunity to serve up

431
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:44.559
something else right when they've had that positive experience.

432
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.680
Absolutely good. So looking to have Michelle like, what what

433
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:51.880
excites you about the next phase of the partnership, because

434
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:54.960
you know you've got this this sort of core borrowers

435
00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:57.599
and new memories. We've got the prime Now you know,

436
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:01.240
any other sorts of products or or services or solutions

437
00:25:01.279 --> 00:25:05.200
that you're focused on here as we roll into twenty five.

438
00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:10.119
Yeah, So we just started having kickoff conversations with you

439
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:14.079
all around your helock offering, which is a great way

440
00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:17.759
for us to capture borrowers who perhaps bought a home

441
00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:20.640
during the housing boom and you know they're locked in

442
00:25:20.680 --> 00:25:23.720
at those low rates and want to tap into that equity.

443
00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:28.200
We've seen some great growth in our own helock portfolio,

444
00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:31.720
but again capturing those that we wouldn't have access to.

445
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:35.680
So we're excited to begin conversations around that.

446
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:40.960
We just launched the recognized Customer program with you all,

447
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:44.119
so if there is advantage west member that's coming into

448
00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:47.359
the Upstart platform, they'll now be routed to us, which

449
00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:54.359
is great. I participated in your AI certification program.

450
00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:57.240
Good, yes, Yeah, which wasn't an easy. I mean, let's

451
00:25:57.279 --> 00:25:59.200
be honest, right, that was not an easy pro.

452
00:25:59.319 --> 00:26:01.039
Did the long verd and the short version?

453
00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:04.640
Yeah, but they were from you like that was university level, right,

454
00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:06.319
And still it really was.

455
00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:09.240
It was taking me back to stats class, but it was.

456
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:12.599
It was great, and I truly recommend it to anyone

457
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:16.359
not only thinking of partnering with upstart, but anyone just

458
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:19.519
looking to get a better understanding of artificial intelligence and

459
00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:24.079
machine learning and the differences and the compliance environment involved.

460
00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:28.079
So we've actually started to make that part of people's

461
00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:32.039
development plans. Every year, folks that manage WESS have to

462
00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:35.400
create a development plan, and because we are partnering so

463
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:38.559
much with fintech, we have suggested some folks take it.

464
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:41.880
That's great, that's good. Yeah, you know, you talk helock.

465
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:44.880
I read something not too long ago that ninety percent

466
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:48.160
of all first mortages in the United States have a

467
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:51.839
rate of five percent or less right now. So people

468
00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:54.400
are kind of stuck in their houses because of rate,

469
00:26:54.799 --> 00:26:57.000
but they hate their kitchen or they hate their bathroom.

470
00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:59.880
And you know, that's that's where I think the heal

471
00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:02.160
product kind of makes a lot of sense. Not just

472
00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:05.480
upstarts heelock products certainly, but you know, any helock product

473
00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:08.440
I think should be really at the forefront as creditings

474
00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:10.519
are looking at twenty twenty five, because these are also

475
00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:15.960
really really good members for other products and services that

476
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:20.000
you may be able to offer. So so it's good

477
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:22.359
that you have that going on. Well, Michelle, I want

478
00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:27.640
to thank you so much for talking into our audience today. Ali,

479
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:29.480
could you pull up the science please. Thank you so.

480
00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:32.599
Vange West is really one of upstarts longest tenured and

481
00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:35.000
one of our most valued lending partners. But in addition

482
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:37.440
to Vantage West, we partner with many other creditings across

483
00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:40.839
the country, helping them deliver high performing and profitable personal

484
00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:43.559
loans while also helping with membership growth in their desire

485
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:46.720
geographic market. We have over one hundred lending partners across

486
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:50.640
the country of all assets, sizes and various geographic reach

487
00:27:50.920 --> 00:27:54.240
like many of those that are pictured on the previous slide. Now,

488
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:56.000
Michelle and I talked a little bit about how Vanage

489
00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:58.680
West has gained. Not only are these high quality performing loans,

490
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.160
but very high quality new members. There's a visual of

491
00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:03.359
kind of what that new member profile looks like and

492
00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:06.640
some of their characteristics, including what we're seeing in early

493
00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:10.279
stages in average creditsco over around seven fifty six. So

494
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:12.880
many of our credit unis have had success cross selling

495
00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:16.880
to these particular members in these into additional products and services.

496
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:19.119
And it's pretty exciting for us to see this as

497
00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:22.000
this is a program that ups are just launched with

498
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:24.200
a few of our trusted lending partners here in July

499
00:28:24.759 --> 00:28:28.079
and you three months later, it's it's really really blown

500
00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:31.640
up and become one of our primary value propositions that

501
00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:35.359
we have to our new lending partners and our existing

502
00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:38.519
ones of these new prime borers that are coming through.

503
00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:41.400
So if you're entering a new market, upstart can find

504
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:44.319
those borders in that designate geographic area. And these new

505
00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:47.759
members generally represent a pretty attractive demographic for building new

506
00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:51.000
member relationships. And finally, if you've got any other questions

507
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:53.200
about what we talked about today or anything we missed,

508
00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:55.440
please feel free to reach out to Michelle right directly.

509
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:58.559
You can see our contact information there. Michelle and a

510
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:00.480
few others from the Vanaged West team will be attending

511
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:03.079
the ACU Lending Conference in Nashville in just a few

512
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:05.599
short days. Members of the f Start team will also

513
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:08.920
be there we really look forward to. It's actually one

514
00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:11.200
of our favorite events of the year because we see

515
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:13.240
a lot of a lot of our lending partners. We

516
00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:15.559
also see a lot of prospective lending partners, and there's

517
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:19.599
a lot of questions and a lot of curiosity around, well,

518
00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:22.640
how exactly does AI work in lending? Like what's what's sir?

519
00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:26.000
Your your secret, sauce your solution with us, and so

520
00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:28.720
it gives us an opportunity to really talk to lending

521
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:31.759
professionals across the country about about all the things that

522
00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:34.519
we're doing here at upstart. But we would love to

523
00:29:34.759 --> 00:29:37.279
meet you in person. If you're coming, please stop by

524
00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:40.359
our booth when you're there. And I want to thank

525
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:42.839
everyone who joined us today and thank you to Michelle,

526
00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:44.799
and I'll turn it back over to our moderator.

527
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:48.359
All right, folks, Well, if you had any questions and

528
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:51.119
that was your chance, please don't be shy. I see

529
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:54.559
we had a couple here in the chat. The first

530
00:29:54.599 --> 00:29:57.279
one we have someone interested in your AI certification program.

531
00:29:57.359 --> 00:29:58.440
Is that a free program?

532
00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:01.920
Verry, it is. It is a great price. It is free,

533
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:06.400
so you can go to upstart dot com. And while

534
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:09.480
I'm talking, maybe my friend Ally can can help with

535
00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:12.359
the exact link for that, but yeah, it is a

536
00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:16.319
free course. We actually introduced two different programs here in

537
00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:19.720
twenty twenty four, almost AI Certification that Michelle was talking about,

538
00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:22.519
which is less about Upstart and more about artificial intelligence

539
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:25.279
as a topic, and it really is sort of college

540
00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:29.519
university level but a good understanding of what AI is.

541
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:32.640
There's a lot of I think misunderstanding about AI, and

542
00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:35.880
people think that there's some sort of doomsday scenarios and

543
00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:37.759
so on around AI. This isn't it at all. This

544
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:41.799
is really just taking for ups models. For example, we

545
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.920
use over seventy billion data points to come up with

546
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:50.839
our model projections and forecasts as we go through the

547
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:55.079
underwriting process, as we validate the identity of borders that

548
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:59.359
are coming through Upstart. So it's we're using it because

549
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:03.240
there's just so much only so much capacity that humans

550
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:05.640
have for it, and we know that through machine learning

551
00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:08.480
we can get to answers faster and be more precise

552
00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:12.599
with it. So that's why we really, I mean, artificial

553
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:14.799
intelligence is really in our DNA, it's in our bones.

554
00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:17.160
It's how we got started and really how we believe

555
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:19.839
that that we're going to be just supporting all of

556
00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:24.359
our financial partners as we go forward with Upstart, and

557
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:27.759
I'm just looking at what the course is upstart dot

558
00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:35.160
Com slash ai hyphen certification. There is also an Upstart

559
00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:39.480
Program certification. It's really more for those lending partners that

560
00:31:39.799 --> 00:31:41.759
we've just brought on. It's a good overview of what

561
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:45.240
Upstart is and sort of how we connect our business

562
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:49.240
if you are to partner with us, it's that one's

563
00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:52.240
a little more consumable. It's about an hour or so,

564
00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:56.400
but would highly encourage anyone who's who's interested to check

565
00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:57.039
that out as well.

566
00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:00.440
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I think it sounds

567
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:03.640
like incredibly useful certification for lending professionals and I would

568
00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:06.319
encourage you all to check it out. Another question I

569
00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:08.400
got here from a member, how do you distribute the

570
00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:12.039
loanberd between loan types, whether that's auto, mortgage or personal ones.

571
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:23.279
Yeah, so we have goals right for the organization set

572
00:32:23.319 --> 00:32:25.559
as part of our plan for the beginning of the year.

573
00:32:26.319 --> 00:32:29.839
So that's, you know, from a lending perspective, how we

574
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:31.599
distinguish what we're.

575
00:32:31.480 --> 00:32:34.319
Going to focus on for the entire year and.

576
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:39.240
Then specifically the Upstart programs now that we have a

577
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:43.480
couple of them, it comes down to what's happening across

578
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:46.680
the credit union. Do we need to bump up the return?

579
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:51.400
Are we looking for more volume? I would be remiss

580
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:54.160
if I didn't talk about our capital markets team. So

581
00:32:55.119 --> 00:32:57.880
we have a small but mighty team that's focused on

582
00:32:58.039 --> 00:33:01.839
loan participations. So it's making sure that I'm poisoning my

583
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:05.000
portfolio for them to take it to the secondary market.

584
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:07.880
So those are all things that come into how we

585
00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:10.319
distribute and how we look at where we're going to

586
00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:11.000
book volume.

587
00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:15.920
That's a good point about participation loans. So two years ago, no,

588
00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:18.160
I'll go back three years ago. There was such an

589
00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:21.119
imbalance between buyers and sellers. There were hardly any loan

590
00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:23.640
pools at all, and we were all crying for them,

591
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:27.519
and we're all outbidding each other, which we're just diminishing

592
00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:31.759
the margins so much it almost was not worthwhile, although

593
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:33.599
it did boost up that side of the balance sheet.

594
00:33:33.799 --> 00:33:38.039
And then it shifted, you know, almost overnight into there

595
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:44.599
were way more buyers and sellers. Where's that now, pardon me,

596
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:46.960
way more sellers than buyers, I should say, is where

597
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:50.720
it shifted. Where do you see that now, Michelle, Yeah, I.

598
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:52.319
Mean, I think the team is finding that there's a

599
00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:55.920
bit more of that balance, so they're not struggling as

600
00:33:56.039 --> 00:34:00.359
much to find buyers. And then you know, this plast year,

601
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:04.920
we've actually had a really good year of selling participations.

602
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:08.679
So I think that's what they're planning on seeing again

603
00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:13.320
in twenty twenty five. We have some lofty goals on

604
00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:16.760
that part of the house as well, so hopefully that continues.

605
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:20.000
That's good. I mean, so think about an environment where

606
00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:23.159
we have rate reductions. It never really never really happened

607
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:26.639
in twenty four. Hopefully it happens in twenty five. I

608
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:29.639
don't know, the FED drop fifty basis points and then

609
00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:32.400
the tenure went up forty basis points, so that kind

610
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.559
of didn't make a lot of sense. But let's assume

611
00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:36.599
for a second that we do see some rate reductions

612
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:39.239
from the FED in twenty five. I mean, that would

613
00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:41.280
tell me that any paper that you put on in

614
00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:43.480
twenty four or twenty three is be a little higher

615
00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:46.639
yielding and probably a little more attentive for those for

616
00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:50.239
those credites that are looking for to build their loan portfolios.

617
00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:54.400
So yeah, yeah, good, all right, thank you. Any other questions.

618
00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:57.840
Then one more question here from the members. Is there

619
00:34:57.840 --> 00:34:59.880
an attention to my great numbers between the segments that

620
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:01.039
you should that your credit union?

621
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:07.119
Michelle, Yeah, we do. Obviously.

622
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:11.400
You know, there's varying degrees of the credit spectrum, so

623
00:35:11.719 --> 00:35:13.880
it's you know, trying to move folks up through the

624
00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:16.360
credit spectrum and trying to move those folks who are

625
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:19.519
borrowers to savers and savers to investors.

626
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:24.519
So we try to be truly intentional about.

627
00:35:24.519 --> 00:35:28.880
Not only where we're booking, but then the journey of

628
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:31.360
the member once they come into our fold and the

629
00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:33.960
types of things that we serve them up, whether that's

630
00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:39.119
financial wellness or if it's you know, a high yield

631
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:41.559
money market account, right, so depending on where they are

632
00:35:41.559 --> 00:35:44.920
today and then trying to you know, evolve and help

633
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:45.480
serve them.

634
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:49.639
We had one more question come in, how does your

635
00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:54.079
charge off DQ ratio has been affected in comparison prior

636
00:35:54.119 --> 00:35:55.800
to and after a partner upstart?

637
00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:03.079
Yeah, so I think like most folks, we're seeing delinquencies

638
00:36:03.079 --> 00:36:03.880
in charge.

639
00:36:03.639 --> 00:36:07.679
Offs rise not only on our.

640
00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:13.519
Regular portfolio a little bit on the upstart, but we're

641
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:14.519
within our tolerance.

642
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:18.079
So we set and annualize.

643
00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:23.000
Expected loss ratio with our upstart partners, and then we're

644
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:26.440
constantly monitoring that so if we have to make adjustments,

645
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:31.360
we will, and we do and see a little bit

646
00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:37.599
of increase in charge offs in some of our earlier vintages,

647
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:42.840
but again that's like post COVID era where you know,

648
00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:45.599
again some of that money dried up, and you know,

649
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:48.519
it's exactly what we saw on our own portfolio too.

650
00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:53.119
Yeah, and I'll say thank you Michelle from upstarts perspective.

651
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:56.719
Our lending partners get to choose sort of the risk

652
00:36:56.880 --> 00:37:00.000
tolerance that that they're willing to accept, so they can

653
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:03.599
land super deep, they can land super prime, UH, somewhere

654
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:06.400
in between, and we do really have a cross the

655
00:37:06.440 --> 00:37:10.159
spectrum UH lenders. Some are looking for volume in are

656
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:14.760
and are comfortable with maybe higher yields and also higher losses.

657
00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:18.000
Some are more comfortable with, hey, I really want to

658
00:37:18.119 --> 00:37:21.719
limit my losses, but I'm okay accepting the lower return

659
00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:25.519
UH for for that sort of more more high quality paper.

660
00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:29.719
And again we can accommodate across that entire spectrum, even

661
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:31.800
a blend of it as well. Some are are trying

662
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:34.280
to say, hey, with like super prime, we know that

663
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:36.400
the loss rates really low on that anyhow, But we

664
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:39.400
also acknowledge the returns low because we're trying to get

665
00:37:39.639 --> 00:37:43.480
the best possible a PR offer out for those super

666
00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:46.360
prime borers. By the same token, you can land a

667
00:37:46.400 --> 00:37:49.280
little deeper and on a blended basis. Now you've got

668
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:52.320
a return that's uh, that's more attractive to the finance

669
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:56.280
folks especially as well. So and the loss rate and

670
00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:57.840
the loss rate exactly.

671
00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:01.920
Well, it looks like that was our last question. So

672
00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:03.960
that's going to conclude our weibe and offer today. Thank

673
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:05.679
you Michelle, thank you Verry, and thank you to our

674
00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:08.800
audience for joining us. Really appreciate it. If you could

675
00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:10.880
please take a moment to fill out the evaluation on

676
00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:13.039
your screen. Your feedback will help us to improve the

677
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:16.400
delivery of our programs and is very much appreciated as well. Again,

678
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:18.199
thank you for joining us, and have a great day.

679
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:20.119
Thank you Michelle, thank you Adam.