Cultivating Diversity: Innovative Strategies for Credit Unions

0:02 You are listening to Leaders in Lending from Upstart, a podcast dedicated to helping consumer lenders grow their programs and improve their product offerings. Each week, here decision makers in the finance industry offer insights into the future of the lending industry, best practices around digital transformation, and more. Let's get into the show. Welcome to Leaders in Lending. I'm your host, Jeff Kelner. This week's episode features my conversation with Corelinda Wooden, the chief retail officer at United's Community Credit Union in Oregon. We really delve into specifically an approach they developed in twenty nineteen to target growth in the Hispanic community around where the credit union is, and the results they've seen thanks really fascinating. It's a great example of what is both a business objective in the DEI initiative not I think so often those can be seen as in opposition, and here really achieving both great business results and helping a community that truly underserved by existing products and services.

1:02 She really talks through the products, say had to build, the personnel changes, the processes, how they went about building it, what they built, the results they've seen. It's a fascinating story. Lots of great advice and experience that you can learn from and take advantage of. So I really recommend this. It's a great story and I think you'll really enjoy it as much as I did. So please enjoy this conversation with Corel, Linda Wooden, Courlyn and welcome to the podcast, and thanks for making the time to join us today. Thank you so much. Jeff, I'm glad to be here. Yeah, I'm excited for this conversation. I always like to start off to asking my guests a little bit about how you ended up here. I know most of us didn't grow up dreaming of being in the banking sectory, at least most people I've talked to did not, and yet we're all here. So tell me a little bit about your career path and what brought you to where you're at today. Yeah. Absolutely so. I actually had a friend of mine when I was a senior in high school that said, Hey, I just got a job at a bank down the road, and they're going to help pay for college. You should look kin to that, so lo and behold, That's what I did. The moment I turned eighteen, I went and applied for a large national bank, and started out as a part time teller and got tuition reimbursement while I went to college full time.

2:13 Then from there it just actually turned into a career and I started I worked my way up from you know, a part time teller to the banker to the assistant manager branch manager, and then moved over into the corporate training department. And from there I found the light and moved over into the credit union space as we like to say, and just continued to grow my career from there and now I'm a chief retail officer. So it's been a fun ride along the way for sure. I love that it's both a high school story and like a financial incentives for joining to like, oh, they'll pay for college. I'm curious, was there never a point in college or was there a point where you want, you know, I did this thing to pay for school and now I'm in school, but like I found through my schooling experience, and that's not where I want to go back. It's interesting to me that you start, you know, people launch their careers post college, and maybe I've heard a lot of stories about getting an offer and starting in the industry and just kind of working their way, but starting pre college and then sticking with it is an interesting twist on that story. Tell me, was there a moment when you said, you know, this was nice that they paid for college, but I don't think this is my co when I'm done or something you suck with the whole way. Yeah, it's It's interesting in the sense that at the time, being a young woman, coding was coming out. It was really popular, and so I thought, oh, that's going to be something that can you know, be a good wealth generation for me in the future. And so I actually majored in the School business under Information Systems and Qualitative Analysis, which is such a mouthful, and really

3:43 what it is is it's like all the IT space, you know, you learn around networking and database and coding and business along the way. And I remember in the middle of the night trying to code this program and it was just not coming to me, and I thought, this is that's not for me, And so I double majored at the last minute into management under the School Business as well. And then I realized that leading people and developing people is my JM. That is my passion, and the financial industry allowed me to do that, and so here I am today. All right, that's great. I had similar moments in college where I you know where I also majored in computer science might school called computer engineering, which is some weird mix of computer science and electrical engineering. But I remember something going, I'm pretty good at this, and I get it, but like, there's a lot of people here who are really good at this, and I'm not those people.

4:38 Maybe I need to find a way to be in the space, but not trying to compete with those guys, because they just like thought and code in a way that I never could. So I was like, well, I go ah, this is really interesting stuff, but this is not what I need to do for the rest of interesting. Well, I wanted to start our conversation with I think it was a in twenty nineteen, a strategic plan around specifically the Hispanic market that you got has developed. I want to kind of just understand the history and genesis of that, because it was to me a really interesting story and kind of plays the DEI angle a little bit. But it's also, I think, very different than most of the DEI initiatives I hear about in a number of ways. So I just would love to get kind of the background on what that strategic planning process was, what the opportunities were, and then we'll dive into it from there. Yeah.

5:20 Absolutely, So when you think back, I had just rejoined the credit Union, so I had come off of a stint of being a consultant for five years. And in that time I had also worked for Filing Research Institute, and so I was helping credit unions launch their IT in lending programs across the country. And so I had that background and then I came back to the credit union and the role that I have today. And my CEO had also come from credit unions in California prior to coming to Unitas, and he had experience rolling out IT in lending at his credit unions as well. So together we already had experience and knowledge and passion about strengthening the support for the Hispanic community. And so with that, we had attended actually a World Credit Union Council conference in the Bahamas in twenty nineteen, and one of the action items our CEO, Stephen Stapp, he does a really good job at any time we go to a conference of holding a debrief session saying what did you learn, what do we want to apply? And from there we created an action plan and we said, this is a really great opportunity for us to better strengthen this in the Portland metro area because we're not seeing a lot of that today. And so one, it was a benefit of supporting a market that hasn't predominantly been supported by large financial institutions today and so it was a good business opportunity for our credit union. And two, it's doing the right thing

6:55 and supporting marginalized communities that have not had the same opportunities as others. And so from there we knew that this is something that I always refer to it as a marathon and not a sprint. If you if you try and sprint into this, you're going to enter it in a really disingenuine way. And we really wanted to build authentic trust in the community. So with that, we created a three year strategic plan and that plan was built into the strategy for the credit union. It was something that the leadership team supported and had buy into, as well as our board, and so from there that really started the foundation of our work. So first of all, I want to ask to clarify one thing for anybody who's not familiar, what is an it lending PERG. I know what it is, and you know what it is.

7:45 But in case our audience members were not familiar with an iten lending program, what is that? Yes, great question, thank you. Yeah. That is an individual tax ID number, So if you do not have a Social Security number, you can be issued an individual tax ID number. Okay, And then I want to say that the reason I thought this was such an interesting story is so often what we think of is DEI initiatives come out of HR or out of somewhere, and they're almost opposite to not opposite too, but they're kind of totally orthogonal to business objectives. It's kind of like we're going to do this thing because we feel like we should, but it's not really it's almost a cost center versus a revenue driver versus a growth driver. It's like a thing we're going to do that. Maybe it's some penalty to the ORG. And I hate that way of thinking about it because it is really so much of a business opportunity. You guys were really looking at it as this is an opportunity for growth. This is an opportunity to bring in new customers or to drive more business and to do the right thing at the same time, but not thinking of it as oppositional to the objectives of the organization, which I think is such a such a refreshing approach and such a more more sensible approach, because generally you can't sustain things that are in opposition to the growth of the credit union, Like you're just not going to maintain over time, you don't win that marathon, right, you pull off to the sime go forget this because the short term priorities take over. Tell me a little bit about what the you talked about the business opportunity, How did you think about what that opportunity was quantifying what you thought you were missing out on or what was out there to be taken advantage of. How did you think about what that opportunity looked like. Yeah, So we partnered with another amazing support group called Copera, and Copera supports credit unions in this space,

9:18 not only with the Hispanic community, but multi community or multicultural communities in general, and they were able to take a look at, you know, within a five mile radius of each of our branch locations today, what is the current demographic and what is it predicted to be five years from now, and so that told us right there the growth of the Hispanic market was so significant that it was an easy slam dunk to be able to show that demographic data and gain that buy in to say this is absolutely an opportunity. The other piece of it is, you know, in the credit union space, oftentimes we have a higher average age of member, and there's always an opportunity to look for that younger member, and Hispanic community allows for that opportunity as well. So not only are you growing members, but you're growing younger members.

10:09 Yeah. I thought that was really interesting data that came for you because you're not in the traditional you know, more southern areas where everybody kind of intuitively expects that there is a high growth Hispanic population. You know, you're origin, You're in a place it's it's not as naturally just go hey, yeah, of course there's a growing Hispanic market that you see there, at least that is not my natural acquatus. It is really interesting that you have in that data that said even here we have a really large growing population, it's not being well served by the current institutions, are not service as built for them. So that was to me a really interesting finding given that you're not you know where you're located. Yeah, it's definitely. Data always helps drive solutions. I always love to see the data vaque at So talk to me about like you have a strategic plan. You see the opportunity, you know, what's what's step one? Like, where do you go from there?

10:54 What are the things that you do that you have been doing that have been effective and serving that. There's obviously any number of things directions you could go. Talk to me about where you went and what was kind of on the list of to do is when you say this is an opportunity we should be chasing. Yeah, I always said that. Twenty nineteen and really a little bit of twenty twenty was us getting our ducks in a row, if you will. It was just us understanding how are we currently serving the market today? What are the products and services we have? What are the ways that we can serve them? So, how many Spanish English speaking employees do we have? And really trying to figure out, Okay, if we want to do this, well, what are the pieces that we need to include in our pie if you will. So if you break it out into four different quadrants you can think of, you've got your personnel, You've got your products and services, you have your your processes, and then you have your partnerships and promotional opportunities. And so we were really looking at how do we want to make sure that we're tackling all of these because if you don't, if you go after one and not the other, you won't be successful.

12:01 And there is a specific order that you have to it as well, right, so it's like that pyramid. You have to have your foundation set in order to continue to grow. And so for us, it was really understanding, you know, do we have the right products and services, And that came from having actual conversations with the community to say, you know, what are the gaps you see today, understanding in the market, you know, just by knowing our different local competitors and other pieces what is out there today, and then creating adjustment. So for us, we had item lending already, but we needed to enhance it even further. We needed to assess what is the documentation that we require, you know, will we allow a matricular consolar ID for example, So those are some a couple updates. And then we also just by having that conversation with the community when we said what are some gaps that you see today. They were able to share that we want to be able to have a remittance product essentially, so we want to be able to send money to our friends and family overseas with a click of a button from our phone. So from that we were able to I did some research on some different opportunities and then we formed a partnership with remittly and now we have over a million that gets sent out on a yearly basis. And so that was just a need that existed to find a way to you know, conveniently and safely and cost effectively send money back home. So that was

13:35 just an example. And then another one was you know iten mortgages and our immigration loan, so iten mortgages are more rare in the marketplace today. And then with the immigration loan, we knew we weren't going to get a lot of those you know, flooding in through the door. But what we did know is that it would help build that trust in the community to say, hey know that you're you know, you're striving to you know, achieve your American dream if you will, and so we're going to help you do that, whether it's getting your foot in the door with this immigration loan, or it's literally getting your foot in the door of your own home with an item mortgage. Well, let's you start off with products. What's what's next in your pyramid? You do a survey, here's the products that people you may need to improve or or add to the slate that to serve the community.

14:22 You got, you got your four What's what's next on your pyramid of stack? Yeah, I would say the personnel is next. And really you're developing those products simultaneously while you're working on recruiting and developing Spanish speaking employees. And so we actually we did a couple of things in that arena. One, you know, we started out with maybe a handful of Spanish English speaking employees. Now we have over fifty in just about four years time. And it really came down to, you know, getting those connections with our recruiting efforts and making sure that we were you know, sending the message out to the right areas, and then really developing training that meant the needs when folks came in. Plus, we also launched Spanish classes for our English speaking employees if they were interested in learning, and so it was a way to just continue to strengthen it all around. And I will say, you know, we sent out so Copera helped us send out a survey to our employees and our board initially, and we learned in that survey that the good news is is that people weren't you know, there was a range so people can be in that you know, I'm rejecting this strategy range to I'm fully embracing it.

15:35 And for us, we started out we weren't in the rejection, but we weren't in the fully embraced. So we started out and it was you know, we actually were in the comply is the language of it. It was the complying range. So and that was back in twenty nineteen when we sent the survey and folks said, okay, we read the comments in addition to the scoring, and the comments were we don't feel like you know, yeah, we think this is a great opportunity, but we don't think we're going to do a good job at it. So we don't have Spanish speaking employees, you know, so there was just it was there was concern around how can we make sure that we do this well? If we're going to do this, and then you fast forward to just last year, we resent out the survey again and now we're up to that ninety percent embrace. So all of your employees and board members are really embracing this strategy and this culture.

16:27 So it's been really exciting, but it's definitely some work along the way. Well, it's fascinating because that the employee concern seemed to mirror the concerns I think any executive our team running the product would have, which is like, it's easy to say you're going to do it, but then it's hard to do it well and actually support those customers in their native language through personnel. I know you also have to translate the website in legal documents, and it's to be pretty complicated to get everything really fully supportive of a Spanish speaking population that wants to transact in Spanish. How was that process for it? I know that when I've been through companies that have gone through translation, it always feels like, I mean, it's like Google Translate can do ninety percent of it, right, it should be pretty easy, and then you peel back the endie you're like, oh no, it's not that easy at all, And I think doubly so. And financial services so tell me a little about actually being able to provide not just employee support, but technical support, applications, experiences, websites in a different language. Yeah, that's a great point as well. And one of my mantras that I lead when we do this is progress over perfection. So we won't be able. There's some things that you just cannot perfect overnight, but you want to continue to show improvement, and the translation is definitely one of those areas. So when we first started this, we had a landing page that was in Spanish and that was it, but it was enough to show the community, hey, here's some products and services we think that you would be interested in that you would benefit from.

17:55 And we're, you know, continuing to work and grow and you fast forward to they Now we have our website fully translated, and I'm proud to say we are the first credit union in the Pacific Northwest to launch a virtual assistant or a chatbot in Spanish, and so it just shows that, you know, we're continuing to evolve and grow and there's still room to grow. I mean, we've been doing this for over four years and we still don't have everything fully translated, and we have different side projects to keep it going along this you know behind the scenes. Yeah, And it does become one of those burden in a certain way, which is like when you want to launch a new product, it's like, do we have to for anything new we want to do a new page, we need to have both versions.

18:37 Does it become a slowing down on any other innovations you want to do that aren't targeted at that community? Necessarily we go, oh my gosh, So everything have to take twice as long now to get everything reviewed at both languages. So it's always interesting when you get there and you go, well, I mean no, but we want to we want to fast follow and move progress over perfection and get there over time. Right, and today when we look at that now we not all are we translating it, but we also have a firm that helps us with transcreation. So that's making sure that our message is not only translated, but it means what we the intention behind it exists, and so that's another important layer I would say to add to the translation process. It reminds me of the to ever hear the story about the you know, they took the Chevy Nova and they tried to sell it in Spanish speaking markets without and they left the name Nova, which roughly speaking means no go. Yeah, it's a car market. This is this is that doesn't work card and nobody bought it, then well why doesn't we buy?

19:33 You got to think about these things, right, It's not just a little You got to think about what's actually being said and what the meaning is. So fassing was there? What's the top? So what we've we've kind of gone through products and personnel. What's the last phases for you? Are the kind of the tip of the pyramid if you will, Yeah, I would say it's the promotion piece of it. So the next is you're developing those partnerships. So for us, we have a really strong partnership with our Hispanic Metropolitan Chamber. We signed a memorandum of understanding with our Mexican Consulate and so, you know, just finding those partnerships where folks already have trust and then that trust can faster translate over to the credit union and then from there, it's getting the word out. It's making sure that you're shouting it from the rooftops and you feel confident that you're ready to hit the ground running and execute well. And so what are the the highline results, Like, what have you guys seen as a success from the reach top of the paramid you're promoting?

20:32 What does success look like for you guys? Is a great story, but I kin one of the final chapter, at least another final chapter has yet to be ridden with the current. That's right. You got to speak to the heart and the mind, right, you got to have that data as well. So when you think about the data, we've actually seen hot off the presses as of July this year, thirty seven percent growth in our Hispanic community just of members of Unite US alone. And to see that double digit growth is pretty phenomenal, and we're not seeing that across are non Hispanic you know it is, it is growing, but not at the same rate. So that's been really inspiring. We also have over nearly fifteen million in iten lending on the books and so that continues to perform really well, and you know, from a delinquency standpoint, it outperforms our non it in portfolio.

21:22 So we continue to perform well and do so in a safe and risk effective way for the credit union. Well, if that's not a selling point for the credit unions to hop on boy, I don't know a single credit union who wouldn't envy thirty plus percent growth in any demographic. But to also have portfolios that are performing better than your traditional portfolio, that's a pretty that's astounding, right. Often we think of those things as trade off. I can attract the customers, but they'll be riskier and harder, and you know, to have customers that are actually performing very well and growing very rapidly is kind of like so what everybody's looking for. So that's a that's a pretty awesome story. I love it. Anything else, you know, through a lot of stuff here on the story. But is there anything I didn't ask I should have asked about the program or something we missed? I guess.

22:04 I will also say that, you know, we want to continue to develop our employees. So not only did we recruit and hire some you know, really talented folks, but we want to continue to develop them along the way, so you know, we invest in them. We have through the Hispanic Metropolitan Chamber, we have Latina Leadership Program and so that's you know, a multiple month program where it's actually folks from across the local community. So not all our financial institution, in fact, only a handful are so it's just giving them a well balanced leadership development growth, which is exciting. And then there's another partnership that I would be remissed to not mention, which is with Inclusive. So that's another partner similar to Copera that has really helped us and with Inclusive. In twenty twenty one, we've received our hunto Soavenzamos designation, which stands for Together We Advance and it's a designation given to credit unions that have really been vetted, if you will, it's you we go through an assessment to say, here are the ways that we're serving the community, and do you feel like we are doing what it takes to do so in an effective manner? And so it's a really proud designation. We were the second credit union in the state of Oregon to receive that and now there's four with many more I'm sure to come. So it just continues to be a good partnership. Awesome. You've mentioned a couple of partners between Copera and Inclusive and Remittly, it seems like there's been internal work, but also a lot of

23:37 partnerships that you've worked on. I'm just curious if you have advice for others looking for partnerships or how you found the right partners, support that initiative, because it's a really interesting balance of the work you're doing internally to build a new product or support hiring and training employees in a different way and to translate the website, and then the partnerships that you're doing with outside organizations to support that mission'squant curious how you think about finding and and making those kind of partnerships really effective. Yeah, I would say some of it just comes from industry experience, you know. So I had worked with both of those partners when I was working with Fidline Research Institute, and then my CEO had also worked with both of them just throughout his career as well. So so part of that is just that industry experience. Part of it is also, you know, when you go to conferences and you make those connections, is you network and you get to know people and you hear what are you working, you know who's helping you, what are you benefiting from and just having those conversations.

24:33 And then within the local community, it's just getting out about and understanding your communities and knowing who are those folks that you know are have similar visions. So when we think about our community partners, we want to make sure that we're aligned in our purpose and our passion and our vision. And then once you find those and really making sure that you build those relationships fantastic. I love it. Well, that's I think we've I think we've that one pretty well and we will almost hit perfectly the time we're aiming for. But I do have the standard three questions I like to ask everybody at the end, So if you don't mind, I'm gonna throw them at you, not rapid fire, but one appter the other. Here. My first question is always what's the best piece of career advice you've ever gotten? Yeah, I would say it's you don't have to be the smartest person in the room.

25:21 Just surround yourself with talented individuals and the magic will come from there. You know, I'm a huge believer in the strength finders, and you know, following like I said, with my college career right like, that was not my strength. So tap into the areas that make me feel good and I'm strong at and continue to develop and grow. And so I would say, once you do that, then making sure that you're also reminding yourself along the way that you need to continue to develop them and yourself and just be that that constant learner. I feel like that's that piece of advice is hardest to follow as you start getting into management and leadership, because people feel like when they're the leader of a team and they're in the room, like they should know all the things that the people in the room know and be able to answer the question. And I think it could be really intimidated. I feel like, but I'm in this room and I don't know how to answer that question. But I'm the leader of the room, and does that mean I'm that That can be where you start to feel imposterius from that sense of like you should feel good that there's people in the room smarter than you are.

26:17 I think is the hardest to tolld Onto. It's easy when you're twenty two and you walk for you, I'm a room flow really smart people. It's a gram in a good place. And then it's harder when you're like, wait a minute, I'm leading all the people in this room and they're all smarter than me, and that's intimidating. And that's something where I always want wait, I have to step back and go, this is a good thing. I like this, even if it is a little bit intimidating for me individually, particularly the position of leadership. I love that advice. Second question, what's the best advice you've got? I'm going to say about the credit union space. I'm going to say the banking space, because I know we're in the we're talking about credit unions here, But the kind of best industry advice you've ever gotten? Best industry advice, I would say, and I think it would apply probably more. I'm go back and forth because I did have about ten years in the banking and before I made the switch to credit unions. But it's like risk is always a concern. We talked about it earlier in our session, right, and always if you're ever in doubt, pilot something that is the best way to just get things going, get the kinks work out, and then you can learn either you fail fast or holy snops, this worked out really well. Let's go and take it a step further, Let's invest even further with it. And I think of that even when you look at you know, like our eye tend mortgages, we didn't just go out there with an uncapped let's just lend it everybody. You know.

27:33 We did so in a prudent way, saying okay, we'll lend up to you know, x million, and we haven't quite hit that number yet, but it allows us to do so in a way that helps us test it. And so I would just say, went end out, pilot it. Yeah. I love that advice because I feel like so often the risk analysis in the financial institition is black white, yes, no, and it's done with a almost with the perspective like what of our whole portolio was in this kind of category of loan and you go, well, yeah, we might not do that, but that's not what we're suggesting. And the idea of a pilot or a limited scope as a real risk mitigent that allows you to try and learn, I think is underutilized it too often. We're trying to take the analysis as that this is going to be like ninety percent of your assets are going to be in this thing, and like what if it does this risk and that's going to go what hold on? If we're piloting it, we're going to learn it. If it does that, then whole stop. But like let's let's figure this out before we make a final decision.

28:26 And I think that's it. Just so often I see institutions go too far the other way and then they just make it almost impossible to try new things when they do that, and I think that's really difficult for folks. So I love that advice as well. All Right, last one for you, Corolina, what is one bold prediction about the future. Well, I think it's been a hot topic one not only in the industry but also in our own household having students right now. But AI, I think, AI is you know something that it's here, whether some folks are ready to acknowledge it or not. And I think it's only going to get stronger and stronger in our lives and become more predominant. And so when you think about that in our space, whether it's you know, financial institutions or credit unions in general, it's how can we embrace it versus be afraid of it? And that's the piece of opportunity. That's the prediction I think is like those that embrace it are going to win out and those that run from it are not.

29:25 So I love it now as a parent, Are you like embracing it for the utilization of hope. I will I will say I've told my kids not to use it, but occasionally when they ask me for help with their homework, I got chat gpten seg how would you solve this problem? And then I'm like, oh, that's yeah, it's very helpful for me. But how do you think about it? You know, on the personal level, I think it's a tremendous tool, and I'm kind of curious where you're at on the using it yourself and with the family. So that's like it's a harder distinction, right, and it's harder to and it makes me wonder, to be honest, if what the kids are being asked to do and go, yeah, it turns out taking bullet points and turning into a five page SA just not interesting anymore, right, Like that's not the skill that's needed. So I'm very curious how they're going to change how our kids are taught based on the availability of large language models and AI that can do certain things, not everything, but certain things that it used to be kind of like when they used to I feel like it's when they used to fight the calculators in school. Going you have to be able to do it was arithmetic that like we teach higher order math now because I don't have to do six digit numbers multiplied together by hand, I can just put it in the calculator and that's I don't think it made us dumber. It's just we had to figure out what the next thing to learn and to teach was tak advantage of that and then and then allow us to do new stuff. But I'm curious your take on it as a parent. Yeah, I think you've said it quite well actually, And for us it's always been don't use it as your crutch. Use it as your tool to make you even better. So it's not there to save you per se. You still have to, you know, bring forward your thought, bring forward your strategy, and then let it

30:56 help you enhance your your content or your work even further. But don't let it create it for you. So that's been our model in our household. I like it. Well, we're all navigating this new world together. But I love the prediction. This is will be the future for financial services and the question is who's going to figure out how to do it well and take advantage And those institutions are likely to do better than those that don't. So wonderful prediction. I agree with you so on and a lot to ulter into the fire and bring you back, but I think that's a great place to leave it. Thanks so much for making the time today and joining us. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much, Jeff. It's been a pleasure. Upstart partners with banks and credit unions to help grow their consumer loan portfolios and deliver a modern, all digital lending experience. As the average consumer becomes more digitally savvy, it only makes sense that their bank does too.

31:45 Upstarts AI lending platform uses sophisticated machine learning models to more accurately identify risk and approve more applicants than traditional credit models. With fraud rates near zero, Upstarts All digital experience reduces manual processing for banks and offers a simple and convenient experience for consumers. Whether you're looking to grow and enhance your existing personal and auto lending programs or you're just getting started, Upstart can help. Upstart offers an end to end solution that can help you find more credit worthy borrowers within your risk profile. With all digital underwriting, onboarding, loan closing, and servicing. It's all possible with Upstart in your corner. Learn more about finding new borrowers, enhancing your credit decisioning process, and growing your business by visiting upstart dot com slash four dash banks. That's upstart dot com slash four dash banks.

32:38 You've been listening to Leaders in Lending from Upstart, make sure you never miss an episode. Subscribe to Leaders in Lending in your favorite podcast player using Apple Podcasts. Leave us a quick rating by capping the number of stars you think the show deserves. Thanks for listening. Until next time.