March 5, 2025

From Europe to the US: Cultural and Market Nuances in FinTech

From Europe to the US: Cultural and Market Nuances in FinTech

In episode re-air, joining our host https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwardswalters/ is Simon Darchis, Head of Partnership at https://www.finwise.bank/, to discuss his trajectory in the financial services sector from Europe to the US. With this...

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In episode re-air, joining our host Ed Walters is Simon Darchis, Head of Partnership at Finwise Bank, to discuss his trajectory in the financial services sector from Europe to the US. With this multi-cultural background in finance, Simon explains the intricacies of FinTech, unraveling the cultural and regulatory intricacies that shape these distinct markets.

Ed and Simon discuss:

  • The pivotal role of adaptability in navigating the evolving landscape of financial services
  • Insights into the contrasting FinTech practices between America and Europe, emphasizing the significance of cultural understanding in the industry
  • The critical importance of compliance in FinTech partnerships, from the challenges faced by banks collaborating with FinTechs to the meticulous partner selection process.
WEBVTT

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You're listening to Leaders in Lending from Upstart, a podcast

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dedicated to helping consumer lenders grow their programs and improve

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their product offerings. Each week, here decision makers in the

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finance industry offer insights into the future of the lending industry,

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best practices around digital transformation, and more. Let's get into

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the show.

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Welcome to Leaders in Lending. I'm your host at Walters.

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For this episode, I had the pleasure to sit down

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with Simon Darcis, head of Partnerships at Finwise Bank. Growing

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up in France. Simon shares his perspectives on the difference

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in financial services between Europe and the United States. In addition,

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he goes into depth on how he approaches selecting and

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managing fintech partnerships in today's regulatory environment. I hope you

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enjoy his perspective. Now let's jump into the episode. Welcome everyone.

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I'm here today with Sarmon Darcis, head of Partnerships Finwise Bank. Simon.

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Hello, Hey, Ed, how are you.

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I'm doing great? Thank you for joining me today.

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Yeah, thank you for having me great.

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So, you know, the first question that we always like

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to ask on these podcasts is really folks journey and

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financial services, you know, so as we'll talk about your

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role here in a second, but that's Can we start

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kind of with you giving a summary of your journey

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in financial services and what got you to the had

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a partnership role of Finwise.

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Yeah.

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Absolutely, I mean my journey in financial services was somewhat

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of an accident, if I'm being perfectly honest. I was

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born and raised in Friends. I decided to move to

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Canada when I was sixteen. The reason why I did

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that is that I really wanted to become a doctor,

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and I figured that if you finished high school in Quebec,

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you could go straight into med school right after high school.

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You didn't have to get a bachelor's degree. So that's

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what I did. Finish high school in Montreal. Ended up

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getting into the medical program that I wanted, and I really, really,

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really hated it. I was miserable for the first semester

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of med school. Hated the way it was tough. I

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felt like I just had to learn everything by heart,

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didn't have to use my brain. So I kind of

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had to set down and figure out what it was

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that I wanted to do for the rest of my life,

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which is a really tough question to ask a seventeen

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year old that's thirty five hundred miles away from his family.

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So kind of figured that.

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I was always a geek, always really into technology, always

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loved to learn about the economy and global policies and

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how it affected the lives of citizens. So economics made

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a little bit of sense. And then what's economics without

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financial services? So that's how I kind of decided to

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study comside finance and economics because I decided not to

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make it easy for myself whatsoever did that and you know,

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my summer of freshman year it came about really wanted

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an internship. Didn't feel like doing nothing over the summer.

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So I ended up getting a summer internship at a

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bank that no one had ever heard of, that was

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based in New Jersey, in the suburbs of New York

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that now became an industry name, and that's Cross River, right.

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So spend the summer there, learned about peer to peer

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lending because that's what it was called at the time, right,

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marketplace lending was in terminology that we're using. Spend the

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summer doing that, and you know, at the end of

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the internship, I kind of went up to the CEO.

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It was like, Hey, now that I've started working, kind

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of want to keep working. Is there anyone that you

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can introduce Metween in Canada where you know I could

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keep working for during the school year, And and that's

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when he offered to fly me out to New York

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every year, every actually every week it was, and every

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year it was every week going back and forth between

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Montreal and New York. And that's how I became a

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full time intern of Cross River and how I saw

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the industry pop up.

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Right.

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We went from marketplace lending or Peter peer lending to

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what is known now as marketplace lending with the institutional investors,

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to crypto payments, cards, deposit sponsorship. So had a really

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really fun time looking at this, looking at this industry,

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kind of be born from nothing. Graduated, decided that I

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wanted to try the more traditional finance route, so went

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to Merrill Lynch for a little bit, and honestly, it

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was boring. I'm not gonna lie, you know. You go

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from fintech to this multi century old institution and you

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kind of feel like you're missing out on the cool stuff.

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So quickly went back to fintech and that's when I

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joined Finwise. I originally joined Finwise to help stand up

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this new business line. I think I was employee number nineteen.

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When I joined Finwise, it was a super tiny financial institution.

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We I think at the time we had thirteen million

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dollars in capital, barely over one hundred million dollars in

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originations every year. Now we're one hundred and seventeen million

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dollars in capital o our a billion dollars in originations

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every quarter, so really sell tremendous growth that at fin

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Wise evolved with the company. You know, at first, the

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focus was on marketplace lending. We always had this understanding

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that we wanted to grow past marketplace standing and start

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sponsoring payments and cards. But honestly, MPL was pretty successful,

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right and took up a bunch of our time. So

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as interest rates sorry to rise, in origination sorry to drop,

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we decided to take a beat figure out what it

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was that we wanted to do long term in terms

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of fintech. And and now we're growing in all directions,

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in all fintech directions, So it's it's really fun.

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No, that's a great story, and I mean definitely that

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willingness to zig zag, you know, starting with you think

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you're going to do one thing, and many of us

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are in that same spot, right we think we're this

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is what we want to do with our career, and

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then we get into it, and you know, we pivot

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and continue to ride that. You have an interesting person spective,

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as you talked about you know, you didn't start in

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the States, and so you have some views I would,

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I would imagine on the differences of how financial services

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work in Europe as it compares to America. Could you

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share some of that perspective or some of the differences

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that kind of stand out to you that occur.

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Yeah, one hundred percent.

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And I think most of the differences between the American

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market and the European markets stem in cultural differences. We

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always think, you know, Europe and America two regions of

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the Western world, they're kind of all the same, right, but.

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We we live fairly.

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Different as it pertains to financial services and money management.

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For instance, the American economy is very much driven on debt,

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whether it's it's commercial debt or consumer debt. It's a

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fun little tidbit. But in Europe we have this stereotype

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that for every dollar than an American earns he's going

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to spend three. So the difference has to be made

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up somewhere. In Europe, you don't have lending as widely available.

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Credit cards are very unknown. They exist, but they're not

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very much. They're not very much used. Installment loans same thing.

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You'll get a personal loan if you want to do

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home renovation or if you have extremely large expenditures, but

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you're now going to use a personal loan for a

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shortfall in budget, you know.

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And we're very much.

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Taught that at an early age. And I can remember

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my parents telling me, never spend more than your earn

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and make sure that you're building, you know, a nice

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little piggybank. So coming from those cultural differences, FinTechs just

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grew in different directions in America and in Europe. And

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I think that's why when you look at the fintech industry,

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the first sub sector that really popped in America was

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a lending space, right, especially that it was right after

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two thousand and eight, no one was lending anymore, very

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hard to get alone. In Europe, the sector that really

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pupped was was neo banks, right. It was transactional tools

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like cards. It was almost Venmo like companies right to

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facilitate peer to peer payments, but lending didn't take off

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and still hasn't. As I said, I think it stems

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in the cultural difference. I think it stems also in

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a difference of data being available. You know, in the States,

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even in Canada, we have the credit bureaus. We can

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easily make an assessment of the credit quality of a

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customer and all of that on an automated basis. Most

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countries in Europe, with the notable exception of Germany and

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the UK, don't have credit agencies. So if you're to

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apply for a personal loan, you do it at the

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branch of your bank that you normally go to, and

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you go through manual on the writing. You know, we

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are starting to see an effort to create open banking

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in Europe that is actually, in some regards a little

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bit more successful than it is in Europe because it

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is created by defentcial institutions and not by FinTechs. But

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that's all you get. It's access to transactional data. You

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don't get that holistic view of how a customer may

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have performed on their past debts. And also they don't

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get a lot of past debts. So you have that

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difference and that's why the fintech sector just evolved differently.

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And then you also have a difference in terms of

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how business or fintech business is done in America and

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in Europe. In America, in order for a business to scale,

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generally they'll create those famous bank partnerships. Right, it's very

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hard for fintech to get a banking license. We've seen

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a few, right they've acquired banks, it's gone into nova licenses.

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In Europe, you don't have that concept of bank partnerships.

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FinTechs very much become banks. There are simplified banking licenses

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that are available to FinTechs, or they can get full

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service licenses. And the nice thing about Europe is that

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it's a conglomerate of countries and if you have a

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banking license in one of those countries, you can operate

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throughout the European Union. The market definitely took a little

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bit of a hit when the UK exited the European Union.

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The UK was generally the point of entry for FinTechs

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into the EU. Now that has transitioned to Belgium and

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a little bit of the Netherlands, but it's very much

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still the same concept. They get their own banking licenses.

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No very interesting and that and you do I imagine

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kind of having that unique perspective just as you're incorporating

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kind of some of your I wouldn't say necessary day

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to data decisions, but as you're kind of thinking about

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the macro and thinking about expansion of just understanding how

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financial services works across the globe to bring those insights

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and say how you can maybe leverage best price. This

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is are things that you think are working other places

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that may may be able to apply here, right.

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Yeah, no, you're one hundred percent to it, right. Especially

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I think the best example of this is payments. You know,

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real time payments have always been a thing in Europe,

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And when I moved to the States and I was like, wait,

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I have to wait how.

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Long to send money?

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It creates you bring those use cases, right, those things

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that you thought you took for granted, you bring those

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things to the United States. And when you're in the

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position that I am right to looking at fintech strategy

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and fintech products on a day to day basis, that

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is a good a good baggage to have. It. It's

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a good knowledge base to have it. It just brings

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a different perspective and allows for maybe a little bit

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more creativity as it pertains to product creation.

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No good now, thank you for sharing that. Very interesting.

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As we transition to your current role, so as the

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head of partnerships, can you describe what does the day

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to day look like? What does the kind of the

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scope of work?

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So the day to day is very much split into

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two buckets. On one hand, you're very much a firefighter

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all day every day. You have to make sure that

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everything is running smoothly. You have to make sure that

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everyone is happy, particularly your your partners and your regulators.

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And you know, I've always somewhat described this roles as

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having three main buckets of people that your service. You

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have the internal people at the bank because you're you're

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the point of contact for everyone, right, internal folks, and

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your your partners. You have your partners obviously they're your

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bread and butter. They're the ones that are advertising your

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products and that are bringing your products to market. And

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then you have your regulators. So it's always a little

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bit of a juggling act to make sure that everyone

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stays happy and stays on the same page. And really

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the second part of the role is is very much

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focused on strategy, right. It's trying to stay up to

234
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date with the current trends, making sure that the bank

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is not falling behind on the next trends, on the

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next products that are going to come out, and how

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we ensure that we're going to be able to service

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or offer those products. So it's a little bit of

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everyday management and long term thinking, right, which makes the

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job super interesting.

241
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Now, it's never boring, never, So let me I'll pull

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on kind of two pieces there. In The first is

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you talked about the working with regulators in the regulatory environment.

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Can you expand a little more. Obviously, none of these

245
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programs are just set it and forget it, right. There's

246
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constant evolution and regulations as things are happening in the environment.

247
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So as you're working with your fintech partners and then

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also managing through the regulatory environment, can you talk about

249
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how you're not only staying current what the requirements are,

250
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but they're making sure that your fintech partners are meeting

251
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up to those expectations.

252
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Yeah.

253
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Absolutely, And I think it's a it's an important question

254
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in the context of what's going on, at least on

255
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the financial on the financial institution side right now, how

256
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do we make sure that we stay clean and that

257
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we run extremely compliant programs. But I do have to

258
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say that the recipe for us hasn't really changed at

259
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the bank. You know, what attracted me to finn Wise

260
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even back then in twenty eighteen, when the business lane

261
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was just getting started, was the fact that compliance was

262
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put first and foremost. We're not a nonprofit, we are

263
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a for profit business. So the you know, the revenue

264
00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:35.279
maximization strategy is here. However, it will never come at

265
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the cost of compliance, which I think a lot of

266
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financial institutions, you know, someone missed the mark on. Yes,

267
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there is a ton of business to be had, but

268
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you have to be selected and you have to make

269
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sure that you're getting into the right kind of partnership. So,

270
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you know, yes, when we saw all of these, all

271
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of these consent orders, it prompted the question of are

272
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we good with those things? We are we sure that

273
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we're squeaky clean, And I think we somewhat came up,

274
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you know, with the decision that we are. But we're

275
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always striving for improvements. We're always putting new processes and

276
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new systems in place to make sure that we remain

277
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best in practice as it pertains a compliance. But if

278
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we're being honest, it's always been a little bit challenging

279
00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:21.399
to work with FinTechs. You know, in the context of

280
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bank partnerships, FinTechs are two things to a bank partner.

281
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They are a client, but they're also an extension of

282
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the bank. So if they're a client, you strive to

283
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maximize your relationship, You strive to maximize revenue, you strive

284
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to maximize growth, and you strive to maximize overall happiness.

285
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If you're looking at them as an extension of the bank,

286
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the same principles apply, but you do have more control

287
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over them. And I think this is the really critical

288
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challenging part of those fintech relationships.

289
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How do you.

290
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Force a platform and I'm saying force, you know, loosely,

291
00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:09.759
but how do you require platforms to adhere to specific

292
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things because of your own risk tolerance when they may

293
00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:16.600
not be on the same page. So everything is always

294
00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:19.759
a little bit of negotiations, even you know, as it

295
00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:22.600
pertains compliance, because we may be coming from a different

296
00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:25.639
perspective and we have to meet somewhere in the middle.

297
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We have to meet somewhere or where the fintech is happy,

298
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growth is maximized and compliance is preserved. And you know,

299
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as I said, it is it is challenging. I mean,

300
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we we are financial institutions. We have stringent requirements that

301
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we have to live with and unfortunately those requirements, unfortunately

302
00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:47.120
or fortunately those requirements also apply to the financial to

303
00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:53.799
the fintech. So how that translates in practice is, you know,

304
00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:57.919
the outer most need for a trust relationship between the

305
00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:00.799
fintech and the bank. The fintech has to trust that

306
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the bank is not going above and beyond for no reason,

307
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and the bank has to trust that the fintech is

308
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doing everything as they've presented. Right, So it's but it

309
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is still a culture of trust.

310
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But verify.

311
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We'll make sure that you know processes are being are

312
00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:28.160
being respected through reports, through testing that will get done independently,

313
00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:34.079
through audits that are done by third party firms. Will

314
00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:37.960
get reports on a weekly basis, on a monthly basis,

315
00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:40.960
even on a daily basis for some and you know,

316
00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:43.440
as part of those reports and all of this data

317
00:17:43.480 --> 00:17:47.400
that we get, we look for indicators that something is

318
00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:51.640
wrong I'll give you an example if as part of

319
00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:54.200
your complaints or as part of a fintech complaint, we

320
00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:56.839
see that a lot of people are complaining that there's

321
00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:00.759
an issue with repaying their loans because the rasing platform

322
00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:03.519
is not it's not great, it's not use or friendly.

323
00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:07.599
Most likely, depending on the kind of volume of complaints

324
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:10.599
that you're getting in that area, it is most likely

325
00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:12.839
an area of concern that the bank has to dive into.

326
00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:15.680
So we use all of this data is provided to

327
00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:19.240
the fintech to make informed decision and to assess the

328
00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:23.279
risk of each partnership. And you know, I'll somewhat wrap

329
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:26.359
up my long answer with an advice for the banks

330
00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:29.160
that are looking to get into the space. It looks

331
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like an extremely attractive business. You know, at face value,

332
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:38.000
it looks like a business with high profit margins, low

333
00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:42.039
op X, very little risk, and that couldn't be further

334
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:44.960
from the truth. I have seen banks that are standing

335
00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:47.880
up that kind of program with one compliance person in

336
00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:51.039
this environment. It definitely does not work, and it did

337
00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:54.319
not work ten years ago. You need to put in

338
00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:56.880
the right investment. You need to put in the right

339
00:18:56.920 --> 00:18:59.839
to risk control and the right infrastructure to make sure

340
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that your fintech is being served correctly, your end user

341
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:07.039
is being served correctly, and that you're staying compliant. And

342
00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:08.920
I think a lot of banks right now are missing

343
00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:09.519
the mark on this.

344
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.160
No, some really good insights as you describe, I mean

345
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:16.319
that kind of what I was listening is that the

346
00:19:16.359 --> 00:19:19.079
takeaway on that is, first and foremost, there has to

347
00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:22.200
be strong communication with your partners and your regulators, because

348
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:25.519
you're right, making sure is everyone interpreting it the same

349
00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:28.920
way as you're describing and having those conversations and how

350
00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:31.400
are you discussing? And then the second thing I'm kind

351
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:34.839
of taking away is just making sure that you're investing

352
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:38.279
the resources that if you're going to get into this business,

353
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:42.839
don't understaff it and don't make sure you're setting up

354
00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:45.680
with the right amount of resources to manage the risk,

355
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:48.200
assess the risk, and manage the partnership. And then that

356
00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:51.119
transit lates I'll see. Then let me go your second

357
00:19:51.160 --> 00:19:53.359
point you talked about earlier, as you said, okay, first

358
00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:56.559
on the regulatory and then you said there's a strategy component, right,

359
00:19:56.599 --> 00:19:58.880
so it's you have to decide all who am I

360
00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:01.880
partnering with because of what you just described You've said

361
00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:03.440
that there's a lot of work, there's a lot of

362
00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:07.000
investment you need to make, there's time so finding the

363
00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:10.759
right partner. So how do you go about selecting who

364
00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:13.079
you work with? And is there a process to that?

365
00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:14.359
I mean, how do you guys think about that?

366
00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:15.359
There is?

367
00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:18.720
And you know, the biggest thing is that you can't

368
00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:22.680
be worried about saying no to a partner.

369
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:24.759
You have to be selective.

370
00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:27.680
So the first thing that we look at when we

371
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:32.400
are talking to a prospective platform is market fit. Is

372
00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:36.559
this a long term product that is creating a need

373
00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:40.160
or that is solving for a need in the market.

374
00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:42.799
There is a lot of startups and it's not just

375
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:46.160
valid for the fintech industry. It's valid for a lot

376
00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:49.440
of various industries that are a gimmick candidatey. So you

377
00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:52.519
want to make sure that the market fit is there.

378
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:56.440
Then the second thing is the culture of the company

379
00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.039
and the leadership of that company. Did they run and

380
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:02.720
you know, I'll throw out a couple of things such as,

381
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:08.160
did they ever run into issues with regulators or law

382
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:12.400
enforcement authorities? Did one of the previous ventures that they

383
00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:15.200
work at got into that kind of issues? So you

384
00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:18.759
look at the past of the founding team, the past

385
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:21.519
of the past experience of the key staff, just to

386
00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:25.039
get a sense of who they are and what is

387
00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:27.839
the culture that they're looking to create in the venture

388
00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:31.559
that is looking to partner with you. Then, finally expanding

389
00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:33.279
on that culture, you want to make sure that they

390
00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:35.480
have a culture of compliance and that they have the

391
00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:39.799
right compliance staff in place, which is sometimes challenging with

392
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:44.599
very new startups. Right, they may not have made the

393
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:48.319
investment in the compliance staff, so maybe they're utilizing a

394
00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:51.400
law firm to fulfill that need. So and if that's

395
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:52.759
the case, you want to make sure that they have

396
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:56.960
a plan in place to create that compliance environment in house.

397
00:21:57.240 --> 00:21:59.359
They can leverage law firms if they want to, but

398
00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:03.799
they should have the staff internally. Once we're kind of

399
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:06.880
pass this first hurdle, we have a pretty extensive due

400
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:10.359
diligence process. Right, we want to make sure that you

401
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.680
have strong financial macking. We want to make sure that

402
00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:16.240
if you're playing on the lending side of the of

403
00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:19.119
the of the space, that you have access to debt

404
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:21.000
and you have access to equity. If you're going to

405
00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:24.160
be financing everything yourself, we want to make sure that

406
00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:27.759
depending on the stage that you're in in the life

407
00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:30.359
cycle of your company, which I have put in place

408
00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:34.480
matches that if you're a very established player like upside Wise,

409
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:38.599
when finit partnered with Upstart, you're expecting to see quite

410
00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:42.240
a bit of pulses and procedures, right, You're expecting to

411
00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:46.920
see that compliance environmentorities to that. If it's a newly

412
00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:51.000
established startup, maybe not. So those requirements will depend on

413
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:56.279
where the companies that in their life cycle. And then finally,

414
00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.400
the most critical piece is the onboarding process.

415
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:00.279
Us.

416
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:02.759
This is when we work hand in hand with the

417
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:05.599
fintech to make sure that all the right pieces have

418
00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:09.640
been put in place to stand up a fin wise product.

419
00:23:10.359 --> 00:23:13.319
You know, there was recently updated guidance that was issued

420
00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:16.920
by the FDIC as it pertains to third party relationships,

421
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:20.279
so bank partnerships fell into this where the FDIC is

422
00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:23.759
now asking the bank to have the right process in

423
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:28.359
place to assess the risk of a relationship prior to

424
00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:32.400
entering into that relationship. That's a process that we've always

425
00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:35.319
followed that fin Wise, so we feel very confident in

426
00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:39.200
the recipe that we've developed to select the right fintech partners.

427
00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:41.680
No it's good and it's you have to be thorough.

428
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:44.480
It is any partnership you get into as a representation

429
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:47.519
of your brand and an extension of your organization. So

430
00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:50.880
everything you described definitely makes sense of why you want

431
00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:53.440
to make sure you're doing the amount of diligence that

432
00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:56.240
you described. So let me wrap. I always like to

433
00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:58.960
as we come to the end, kind of three quick

434
00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:02.880
quick questions. The first is, tell me, is there a

435
00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:05.880
tech or an app that you just right now? You

436
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:07.759
can't live without that? It is just part of your

437
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:09.640
kind of day to day that is kind of your

438
00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:10.720
your go to right now.

439
00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:13.119
I mean, look, it's gonna sound various, you're a typical,

440
00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:16.039
but I don't think I could live without my phone.

441
00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:19.920
Right This is where I conduct business. This is how

442
00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:22.440
I talk to my family, that's abroad. It's how I

443
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:26.440
manage my finances, It's how I I you know, even now,

444
00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:29.839
it's how I pay right. I honestly can't remember the

445
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:32.119
last time I walked out with my wallet.

446
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:33.359
I have my phone.

447
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:37.240
It's enough to do everything so that that piece of technology,

448
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:40.880
unfortunately has become pretty critical to my life.

449
00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:44.279
Yeah, you'll walk out of the house without a not

450
00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:46.559
bring a driver's license or a wallet or anything like that.

451
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:49.200
But if you walk out without your phone, you're heading

452
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:50.319
back yet.

453
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:53.319
One hundred percent you feel naked without it. Yeah.

454
00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:57.680
Now, so my second question is, you know, we're financial services.

455
00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:00.839
It's a risk based business. We all have to manage

456
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:04.000
risk if you're in financial services and so and sometimes

457
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:07.519
you have to make internal risks for career or just

458
00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:10.640
kind of business decisions. Can you share an instance where

459
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:12.839
you think you had to make a risk or a

460
00:25:12.920 --> 00:25:14.920
bold decision and what did you learn, What was the

461
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:15.799
outcome of doing that?

462
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:19.200
Yeah, so, you know, I think the biggest risk that

463
00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:22.000
I took in my career was to switch over to

464
00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:27.839
fin Wise. Right when I started at cross River, I

465
00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:30.960
didn't have that consideration of is the bank small, is

466
00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:35.000
it big? It was an internship and I was very young,

467
00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:38.720
so I didn't have to consider those things. But by

468
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:41.799
the time I left cross River, it was a very

469
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:45.839
established player in the space, right, and so when that

470
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:49.920
opportunity came up at finn Wise, it would have been

471
00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:52.799
or it was to go back to very much being

472
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:56.039
in the trenches. A lot of it has not been

473
00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:59.559
stood up yet. It's recreating a business line from scratch.

474
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:03.319
And that was a risk, but I think it's somewhat

475
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:07.039
what keeps me going in my career. I love being

476
00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:10.519
the guy that is standing up new stuff that you know,

477
00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:13.640
is trying to figure it out, that that is deep

478
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:16.759
into trenches. It's it's truly what I enjoy. So the

479
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:21.920
switch to finn Wise definitely solidified that I'm this guy

480
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:27.119
that is super happy with new established company and you know,

481
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:30.200
being a jack of all trades as opposed to just

482
00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:33.160
being an employee number at a company as big as

483
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:34.559
Bank of America for instance.

484
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:37.480
Now you're looking at it, it sounds like you thrive

485
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:40.279
in that fast paced environment. Now good to hear. And

486
00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:43.880
then the last is is we think about twenty twenty four,

487
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:48.039
any bold predictions of what you think might happen, and

488
00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:51.240
you know, over the next eighteen to twenty four months.

489
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:54.960
I think we'll start to see an even more dramatic

490
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:59.519
rise in the use of artificial intelligence. Lending has somewhat

491
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:03.559
embraced it already. I mean a lot of marketplace lenders

492
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:08.680
now use artificial intelligence based proprietary models, but I think

493
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:12.119
we'll see it even more in other areas. I could

494
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:15.759
see a tremendous rise in the use of neural nets

495
00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:20.079
for anti fraud solutions, for instance, for KYC solutions that

496
00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:26.240
use extremely non traditional data sources. Right now, if you're

497
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:29.680
looking at fraud, you know, or transaction monitoring, it is

498
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:34.559
using financial service data. I could see, you know, neural

499
00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:38.039
nets being created that are pulling from news or pulling

500
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:42.359
from social media, that are pulling from past to usage

501
00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:44.519
across various financial institutions.

502
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:47.240
So I think we'll see.

503
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:50.000
That, and of course we'll see the rise of artificial

504
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:55.000
intelligence for more operational efficiency and for improving the accuracy

505
00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:58.160
of the models that we already have in place today.

506
00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:00.720
And you know, I'll wrap up with this.

507
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:03.440
I could, you know, give your predictions all day long,

508
00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:07.119
but I'll wrap up with this. I think big tech

509
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:11.200
will eat at the market shares even more than they

510
00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:14.240
are right now as it pertains to fintech. You know,

511
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:17.559
if we look at Apple, I think it's a great

512
00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:21.279
use case of how big tech can can you know,

513
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:25.799
try to penetrate that fintech industry. They started with an

514
00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:28.759
Apple card. It was a partnership with Golden Sacs. We

515
00:28:28.839 --> 00:28:31.480
knew that Golden Sax wanted to penetrate the consumer market,

516
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:34.319
and at first it was like this is a natural

517
00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:37.799
evolution for Apple, but then it was by now pay later.

518
00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:43.039
Now it's payment processing right. iPhones and iPads for the

519
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:46.319
past six months have been able to process card payments

520
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:50.880
on device. So I think big tech have seen that

521
00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:54.960
fintech is extremely interesting and that there is a play

522
00:28:55.599 --> 00:28:59.880
for them, right. Amazon is another great use case. I mean,

523
00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:05.559
Amazon has been an extremely vocal adversary of interchange fees

524
00:29:05.720 --> 00:29:09.200
in the States. We could see a world where Amazon

525
00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:12.200
is creating their own payments hub. They may be creating

526
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:15.680
their own neo bank, you know. I think this will

527
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:18.920
happen sooner rather than later. I don't think this is

528
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:23.400
a multi decade opportunity for those big techs. I think

529
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:26.039
this is something that they're actively working on right now.

530
00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:31.519
Yeah, you're seeing just different organizations cross traditional boundaries of

531
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:34.079
where you wouldn't think that they would be doing business.

532
00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:34.799
But it just do is.

533
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:38.319
Financial services is kind of ingrained in a lot of

534
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:41.559
those components. So we'll we'll look forward to checking back

535
00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:44.839
in and saying and some of your predictions. Simon, thank

536
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:47.480
you so much for taking the time today. I've enjoyed

537
00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:50.440
the conversation. Learning a little bit more about your background

538
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:53.279
and your journey and appreciate the insights today perfect.

539
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:54.839
Thank you so much, Ed, I appreciate it.

540
00:29:55.720 --> 00:29:58.480
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