How a $4.5B Credit Union Maintains a Direct Line to Members

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You're listening to Leaders and Lending from
Upstart, a podcast dedicated to helping consumer

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lenders grow their programs and improve their
product offerings. Each week, here,

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decision makers in the finance industry offer
insights into the future of the lending industry,

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best practices around digital transformation, and
more. Let's get into the show.

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Welcome to Leaders in Lending. I'm
your host, Jeff Kellner. This

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week's episode features my conversation with Bruce
full the President CEO of American Heritage Credit

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Union, recently named American Bankers Credit
Union Executive of the Year. I enjoyed

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this conversation. We dove in with
Bruce to talk about growing this organization from

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just four employees when he got there
to over seven hundred with over fifty mergers

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in the process. But most of
the asset growd they've seen them were four

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billion assets now. Has not come
from the mergers. Has really come from,

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I would say, a culture of
hustle, hard work and customer service

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that he has instilled up to and
including a contact the CEO button on their

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website. It's really a fascinating story
about how they've seen the future, how

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they've really gone out of the way
to find ways to serve customers. I

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think you can really feel that culture
emanating from the conversation with Bruce, and

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we also dive into some of the
charitable work he's done, including his trip

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to Ukraine to deliver ambulances that he
had built. So a fascinating guy,

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fascinating conversation, lots of tidbits of
wisdom, and many things to learn,

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So please enjoy this conversation with Bruce. Bruce, Welcome to the podcast.

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Thanks for joining us today. I
appreciate you making the time. Thank you.

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I'm glad to be here and help
to talk to you about whatever you

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want to talk about. That's a
give me free rain. That's a dangerous

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thing, Bruge. You never know
where we'll go. That's exactly right.

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Well, I start this all my
conversations off with the same basic question,

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which is kind of tell me about
your journey into the banking industry. How

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how did you wind up in the
banking and credit union space? He cat

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When I graduated from college in seventy
five and seventy seven, I got two

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degrees. I was landscaping for everybody
that was working in the government, and

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they all told me and even as
Speaker of the House of North Carolina.

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I went to NC State and the
Speaker of the House I used to mow

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his yard, and everybody said,
you need to go work for a credit

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union. I said, what the
hell's a credit union? And they said

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it's like being a banker. He
said, okay, I'll do that.

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So I walked in the door and
the guy said actually was Jim Lane,

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the predecessor. And the guy said, hey, I gotta hire you because

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you know everybody I love it.
So that's how that's how I got in

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it. And I worked down in
North Carolina for a couple of years,

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and then I came up to Philadelphia
and seventy nine and I've been here.

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I can't hold a job. I've
been here, what forty three years?

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Right now? Forty three years?
What I mean, you can't hold a

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job. That's lot's a lot of
longevity forty three years on one play.

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Yeah, actually it is. Well, I want to talk about your your

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current credit union, because you guys
are fascinating. You grew this business,

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if I understand right, from like
four employees to several hundreds. So that's

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that's quite the journey. You guys
have been on, tell me a little

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bit about how you got into this
and what that journey has been like.

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You know, it was used to
be called bud Workers Federal Credit Union,

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and we were around four million dollars. We had four four employees plus b

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and everybody in the plan because I
used to manufacture automobile parts like stampings for

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doors and fenders, and everybody was
saying, hey, they're going out business,

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they're going out business. So I
went out, I said, you

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know what, I got to figure
out how we could survived. And I

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went out in the marketplace looking for
a merger partner. And I found this

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small credit union up the road and
they said, hey, could you you

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interest a merger with me? And
next you know, it was it was

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around a fifty thousand dollars fifty thousand
dollars credit union was real tiny, which

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most of them were back then.
And so what happened was it I just

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went after other credit unions to try
to merge with me. And you know,

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I'd done what fifty five mergers over
the years. But if you had

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them all together, you had them
all together, then it's not even gonna

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be two hundred million. And we're
four and four and a half billion now

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and with now I have a seven
hundred twenty five employees working for us.

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So that's the background. Well,
I'm ask you two questions about that.

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One. What's the biggest lesson you've
learned? I mean, fifty fifty plus

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mergers, is that's more than most
of us will do in a career.

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What are the things you learned or
kind of you know, would do different

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or have done better as you've gotten
down the road and gotten smart about how

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to do these things. You know. I didn't take the mergers on just

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to take a merger. I took
it on for stability, what it was

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going to do for my credit union, to preserve our credit union. And

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that's what I was really scared about, because the government came to me back

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in the eighties, the government came
to mean, say would you take this

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merger with Bruce, you take this
merger. I had so many merger opportunities

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because the government was not I was
trying to find merger partners and I said

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yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I was. I was fortunate

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enough that they knew I was one
of the few people out there taking a

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merger. Now everybody wants to take
mergers, so you go, figure,

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but so you were ahead of the
curve. It has been a trend,

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the consolidation of both banks and credit
unions are at last. It kind of

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surprised me. I come in to
the industry, you know, almost a

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decade ago, and how many banks
are there, you know, time to

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think about your universe of the industry
you're in. And then you look at

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the history and they were like,
you know, twenty thousand in the seventies

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and now there's like five thousand of
each, and you kind of go,

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huh, that's been a it's in
that line, is like, it's just

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pretty constant, that kind of decrease
in numbers and consolidation in the industry.

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When I came here where there was
twenty six thousand credit unions, I was

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like the six thousand largest credit union. I don't know, eighty fifth largest

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the fight there aren't six thousand credit
unions, I don't think. So you

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can't be success right around five I
think crash. Well, so if you

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only acquired less than two hundred million
in assets, but you've gotten over four

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billion, you've done something else to
grow the credit union over the years,

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other than just the merges. Emergers
clearly, I think expanded your field of

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membership and you know employer employer partners
you were working with, et cetera.

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But how did you think about the
kind of growth you've achieved, Because as

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I think, almost every credit union
in bank I talked to is trying to

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grow the number of members, the
number of customers they have in the fold.

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And you've done that pretty successfully.
What's what's the secret? How do

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you? How have you gone about
that? You know when I when I

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first started out, I went out
and I solicited that everybody. It was

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me, it was Bruce. I
was a guy that was the PR guy.

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I was the marketing guy. I
was the loaning officer. So I

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was out there soliciting people that joined
the credit union. I knew how the

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better sell this credit union than anybody
else, and I knew I had to

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do something differently, and I said, we got to be different than every

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any else. So we never search
charge. So people come to us because

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we don't search charge at any any
of our hundred ATMs that we got out

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there. So people are and that's
what our name has been promoted out there.

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Other people are saying, go to
American areas, and they don't whack

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you a fee or search charging so
and then that's how I also get people

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to join the credit. And they
said, out, you know what,

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you guys are really caring about the
community. So I've been in the street

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myself and I know what people want. And I focused on healthcare industry and

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the government, federal government industry.
They were the ones I was focusing on.

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And it did. It did come
out to our advantage because the health

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industry is booming right now and the
government industry somewhat booming that they show it

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for work. But that's that's another
fifty million question. I hear you used

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to go into the hospital for all
the shifts to sign people up hand to

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hand combat style with the doctors and
nurses there in the in the in the

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facilities. And you know what,
I did do that and I went to

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all three shifts at the hospital for
two weeks. I was exhausted. Its

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sleeping between the times, and I
would do classes where I would actually be

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in front of a class and people
would come to me. And that's how

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I tried to do it. Initially
said I want to do classes, trying

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to have twenty or thirty people in
a class and that's what I did on

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three three shifts, and that's how
we really grow. It was it's still

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it's still part of our mo that
we go into the workplace. Partners as

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we call them, got to go
out there. You gotta be where the

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people are. Yeah, how do
how do you maintain that? As the

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you know, the CEO is the
organization grows and you get bigger and bigger,

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I imagine, you know, it's
harder and harder for you to be

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the one in the street and be
hearing the feedback and feeling that direct connection.

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Are there things you do that try
and keep you connected to the customers

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in the same way you used to
be when it was you know, uh,

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you know Bud's credit. It's just
four of you. Yeah, and

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that's not a Bud bud Wiser.
But here's what here's what I have on

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our website. And I said,
I don't want to forget where I came

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from. I want to have a
contact the CEO button that anybody can call

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me or talk to me when they
want to. And I return every single

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email personally, and I give him
my personal direct phone number here at work.

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And I called some lady that was
stuck in Paris, France one time

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because she was stuck, and she
sent an email I said, I'm stuck.

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I can't get my credit card to
work. And I called her up.

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I think it was like two o'clock
in the morning, their time over

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in France, and I walked her
through and got her out of Paris.

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So the thing now going on,
people will say, just in my stiff

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notes, just hey, go email
Bruce. He said, he'll call you

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back, and they know I will
call you back. How much traffic do

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you actually and again, how many
members do you have that you are exposing

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the contact the CEO button two?
And how much traffic do you actually get

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on that We have two hundred and
eighty thousand members. If I get one

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person a day, that's pretty much
it. Most of what Most CEOs are

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afraid to put their contact out there
correctly. But you know what, it's

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the way I was brought up with
my family. I love those I love

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those numbers because I think it really
speaks to the cost to you is quite

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small. You know, calliday is
not a not a big deal. And

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the value I think that people feel
in the accessibility is quite high. So

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I think I think it's quite fascinating
that you've got that many members who have

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the ability to contact you, and
they probably feel great that they can,

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and very few actually do. And
that's um. It's an interesting lesson for

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everybody, I think, because it's
clear that you're getting more trusted. There

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was a bank out or maybe it's
still out there, that had a telephone

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on the front desk that could go
right to the presiden CEO. I've heard

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that, but yeah, I don't
get that many. I don't get that

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many phone calls or emails out there, because you know what, I got

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a great staff. If you've got
a great scaff you know they're going to

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handle the proms. That's that's key. Jeff Bezos is famous for kind of

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forwarding emails from customers because I don't
think he reads all of the emails.

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I think he gets a few more
than one a day, but he gets

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emails directly from customers, and he's
famous forwarding them with just a question mark

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to the responsible executive. And I
think it's the most dreaded email at Amazon.

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There there's no commentary, there's no
question, just a question mark out

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like something that I'm wrong fixing.
How did this get screwed up? Do

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you ever do you ever farm it
out and send these things on to the

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right people for faster response, and
you're scared of your question mark emails.

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I never did a question right now
that you've mentioned it, maybe that's what

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I should what's going on here?
But you know what, as as I

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said, I do, I do
write notes, and I do right to

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the employees, so I think or
can help solve the problem for them.

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Hey, take care of this.
Call me back and let me know that

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I contact the member. Hey so
and says it's going to help you if

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they don't. Here's my direct number
calling exactly. Yeah. I love that

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direct connection. I think so many
people. We've had this conversation with a

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lot of guests here. How do
you maintain as you get bigger and farther

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removed from the frontline staff, that
direct connection to the voice of the customer

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and the needs of the customer and
remember what it's like to be aline employee

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and what those needs are. I
think that's a great example of how you're

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doing it, and that's critical.
And it's like the employees have to have

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access to me too. Everybody fallsby
Bruce. I know a painon but at

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times. But you know, they
all know that I'm real, really,

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just a regular guy in the suit
FI. I'm Margie Clark, President and

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CEO of Agricultural Federal Credit Union in
Washington, DC. When we wanted to

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acquire more members of personal loans,
we knew we needed a partner that allowed

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us to scale quickly and easily.
With Upstart, we were able to go

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live in fifty four days without adding
hoodcom and we were able to learn previously

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under serve ours with upstarts model.
If you'd like to learn more about our

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partnership with upstart, you can read
more at upstart dot com, Forward slash

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Lenders. Thank you, and back
to the show. What's what's next for

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you? Guys? Um? Like, what do you see on the horizon?

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You've obviously had a tremendous trans transition
from small to large credit union,

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lots of mergers, tons of growth
and assets. What's on the horizon,

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What's you get you're excited about what's
down the road? Is it more of

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the same or they're trends you see
emerging that are that are going to change

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the way you think about interacting And
how do you see the future of the

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of the space and of your business. Well, we were one of the

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first to jump into of popio with
those videoteller machines and we're heavily into that.

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I think we got like a hundred
of those machines now in our branches.

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So people will actually go up to
you see a live, live teller

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behind a video screen. But I
don't want to lose that contact. But

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what I'm seeing is that or what, let's face it, you can't afford

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people today that don't want to work. So you've got to figure out ways

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to get people would come into work, or how to pay the answer to

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the phone. And that's what we're
saying. Okay, how do we expand

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it. We just rolled out two
years ago a VANNA, which stands for

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a Video Advisor Network Associates, where
we actually made a commercial of me,

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of me announcing it to the press
that hey, you want to talk to

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a live person ghost it on your
at home on your iPad, here's a

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number. Just pushed the button on
on your American Age website and you'll get

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a live person to talk to you. You've got to add that personal experience.

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We're trying to get into the AI
stuff right now and have our phone's

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answer to help out with the phone
calls out there. So that's where it's

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going to be at. How do
you think about the difference with this,

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because I think it's really fascinating the
second person talking about the video teller machines

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like a real live person in the
telling. Of course, once you've got

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that, you go why do you
have to go to the branch to do

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it? You can just do the
video from you know, in your hoodie

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sweatshirt like I'm wearing from your you
know, from your living room where I'm

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at um. But it's curious because
the AI is kind of like the replacing

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the human with some sort of technology
that can have a basic interaction without talking

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to a person. And the video
tellers it's kind of the opposite saying,

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hey, you've come in somewhere and
I want you to actually have a human

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conversation with the real person who can
talk to you. And I'm curious how

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you think about the role each of
those kind of technologies plays. My senses,

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it's not like A or B.
It's some kind of combination where each

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of them has a role to play. How do you think about how those

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things sit next to each other,
and how you figure out where and somebody

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wants to have a high touch experience, and when someone wants to go,

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how do I just interact with the
machine and get through this as quickly as

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I can? Okay, So if
you come to the office, you can

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either do the we call path machines
person at a mateteller where you have the

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video to tellers, but you also
have a smart office and the smart offices

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you walk in, you sit down
and there it contacts one of our concierge

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people that it goes out and they
can talk to the person there right in

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the branch. All the computer equipments
there for the prints, all the signature

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stuff. But what we're going to
do now at home, we're going to

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do every through through docu sign We're
gonna send you the documents online. You're

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gonna just do it there and don't
make sure you have your clothes on so

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I worry about it, man,
what the heck? And uh? And

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then you know that's that's the any
way I think we're going to be able

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to survive and still all for personal
service because people are going to get smart

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and they're gonna know it's A.
It's an artificial intelligence machine, and it

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will ask you if you say,
hey, you're a real personalill say no,

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I'm not. Yeah. They're trained
not to lie about it. Unlike

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the original outsource call centers. I
do you remember those where you'd call in

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and so we'd be talking to you
from some foreign country, go where where

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are you? I'm in Atlanta,
and I go I don't think I don't

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think that's right. They were a
little, a little untruthful about that.

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But the AI typically is trained to
just yeah, I'm not a real personalist

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an AI. So that the biggest
challenge, I say, is gonna be

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is skin people to fill the void
with not having as many employees needed to

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run the operation. You know,
we got seven hundred some employees here,

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and you know with COVID, people
just said, hey, I want to

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work from home. Well, you
can't build a culture without coming to work.

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I don't care what you say,
and I guarantee you. What do

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you think? And that should be
a good question. What do you think

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all the major cities United States would
look like if nobody showed up downtown,

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all the shops closed, all the
barber shops closed, all the it would

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be horrendous. It would be horrendous. You know what, you have to

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come back to work and you have
no culture. How do you get a

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culture? You know you gotta have
it. So are you guys back to

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like five days in the office,
what's your what's your kind of post COVID

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remote, non remote in office,
part time in office? Where where are

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you guys out on the spectrum of
kind of responding to this, Most of

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people can work three after work,
three to day's in the house and then

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two days from home. All my
vice presents come in because I want to

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talk to him, I want to
see them, and I just think it's

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I don't know, I just think
you got ingrained a culture. Certainly,

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I think you've ingrained a culture of
hustling and hard work and serving the customer,

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and that is a little harder to
do and feel. There's a there's

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just like a vibe. It's to
me kind of like the difference between watching

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h I just thought of this,
but like you watch a sports event on

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TV. In some ways it's better, like higher deaf you get better video

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replays, but it's not the same
vibe. It's not the same field,

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right, there's a different experience to
being in a stadium when a game is

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being played with a lot of people. You never you never capture that.

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When you watch the game at home. You can get you know, maybe

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better snacks and better beer in a
bigger screen for the replays, but you

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don't. It's not the same experience
as being in person for that Eventment company

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feels the same way. You can't
get that same the feel the culture doesn't

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come through the same way. Even
if you have you know, more convenience

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or whatever, you don't have the
spill and beer on you. I mean,

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what's what's what's the ball game without
people's part throwing peanuts on the ground

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or whatever it might be at your
I mean that's like, but those are

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things are unique to the stadium,
unique to the culture of a particular team.

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And it's what kind of buyds those
fans together, right, is the

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experience of of of of living it
together and something. Yeah, and you

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know, and that's what's about.
That's it's you gotta be. You gotta

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be. We're a social people,
you know, yeah, we are.

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We are a social creature. At
the end of the day. I'll tell

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you what my biggest thing and another
thing that differentiates American heritage is that we

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were the first credit Union to roll
out not for profit charitable organization called the

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Kids and Who twenty seven years ago
and we raised three million dollars for Children's

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Hospital Philadelphia, which which we pay
for the music therapy program down there.

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The money goes to a specific program. So I was gonna ask you about

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your your charitable works. I know
you've done quite a bit, but how

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did you pick the music program in
the hospital like it? That's a very

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specific, and I'm curious why you
chose to be specific in what you do

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with the charitable work and how you
picked out particular beneficiary and program. Well,

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when I was driving down ninety five
one a Friday at eleven thirty at

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Cottman, I don't know, I
heard Make a Wish was taking a kid

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up to the Alaska and I said, I'm going to take a kid to

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a Disney World. And I went
down to Children's Hospital Philadelphia and I told

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the guy, Hey, I'm taking
one of the kids at Disney World.

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He said, no, give me
the money. I said, no,

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no, Jack, And that was
his name, Jack. So I get

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talked to him because he's a drinking
buddy. And then I went over to

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the Sea shore House and that's the
rehab hospital and they said the same thing.

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We need the money because we're the
last hospital as a music therapy program.

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I said, man, I like
Disney World better. And they said,

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do you know what music therapy does? I said, I kind of.

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He says, music therapy gets kids
in moving their arms, their legs,

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they forget about their pain. It's
therapy. And I said, yeah,

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okay, what's the big deal.
I said, I still like going

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to Disney World. And he says, let me tell you what happened today

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a kid or yesterday a kid.
A twelve year old girl got hit by

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a car in Philadelphia and she broke
her neck and she got became paraplegic.

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And that the art therapist was working
with her at at the Sea shore House,

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and the art therapist they asked her
what's that picture of hers? They

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put a pen in her mouth and
they said what's that picture of And she

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says, oh, that's a picture
of my heart. Well, what's all

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the red squiggling lines for it?
She says, oh, that's a picture

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of my heart on fire. She
says, why is your heart on fire?

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She says, because I can never
hug my mommy again. I said,

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we're in a music therapy business and
we raised three million dollars, and

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it's the employees doing it here.
It's not American Harry's rain and check.

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It's the employees helped raise money.
That's the difference. But then a lot

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of big crazy is a right a
half a million dollars or hundred thousand dollars

339
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or whatever for their event. But
it's our employees that do it. We

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give them a time off that do
so. The employees go down and volunteer

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and participate in the program. Yeah, they did a lot of We go

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down and play games with the kids. We actually bought them a robot a

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few years ago, which greeted all
the kids coming into the music therapy program.

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It's kind of cool. I was
on national team. What you did.

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Yeah, it's kind of I don't
want to say old school, but

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it reminds me of the origins of
community banking and credit unions. Real,

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real, true connection with the community
that you're serving, not just in the

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kind of business that you're in,
but as a real community organization. That's

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that's ingrained in em bettered in working
with volunteering in the community. It's I

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love that story because it's it really
is about how the organizations embedded with that

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that that place, the people that
are there. It's great. And you

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know the other big thing about us, about me especially you know, I'm

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a volunteer firefighter. I just believe
I got to help out people. I

354
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:55.759
can't dry by an accent without helping
her stop, and I just don't believe

355
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that that's that's stuff. But you
know, I just came back from Ukraine.

356
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I believe we were raised money for
UH ambulances for over in Ukraine.

357
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When I met the Secretary of Poland, Yes, for five hundred ambulances.

358
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I told him, I get you
two right now, we're going ten.

359
00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:18.400
And we raised the hundred hundred,
four hundred thousand dollars for ambulances. And

360
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they're not to fancy him. You
guys just converted vance, right, So

361
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you know, And I just came
back from the Ukraine, a war zone.

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Well say you delivered some of these
personally, you went over there and

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delivered some his ambulances. How did
that go over with the board and the

364
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family flying into a war zone?
I imagine that was a tough call to

365
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go over there and do it in
personally. You know, when my my

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wife was upset, but I you
know, she used to me running out

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the door, you know and doing
crazy. The fire calls and tell me

368
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to slow down, but I AWA
had no fear. When we got over

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there, we picked the ambulance up
U in Poland and drove it over the

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border to the viv Lviiv, Ukraine, saw the burned out power plants that

371
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Putina just burnt blew up the week
before, and then we went delivered it.

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And when we when we got out
of the truck or out of an

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ambulance, we heard the air raid
sirens going off. And I'm looking around.

374
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I'm saying, why isn't everybody running? And they said, oh,

375
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the army takes care of an air
force takes care of all the drones and

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the midiicles come in eighty percent of
them. I said, what about the

377
00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:26.599
other twenty percent? Man? They
said, well, you know they don't

378
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come in. So it's kind of
fun to walk near a power plant,

379
00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:33.920
ye right, yea, So it
was kind of a unique. So I

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00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:37.880
was very very happy. And when
a good friend of mine, Brian Brant,

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who were there and that and I'm
going to do it again another two

382
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.400
months. I'm going to delivering another
ambulance over there because I have to.

383
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:49.640
I just can't sit here. That's
certainly I think everybody's got hopes in prayer.

384
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:52.799
That's doing doing something very real and
personal. So it couldos to you

385
00:24:52.839 --> 00:24:56.880
for that. I think you should
go, Jeff, because I can run

386
00:24:56.920 --> 00:25:00.400
faster than you, you can hold
on. I like the way you position.

387
00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:04.480
I don't think my wife's gonna take
that as a good rationale. I

388
00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:08.759
don't worry going cruise. He runs
faster than me when stuff gets past here,

389
00:25:10.519 --> 00:25:14.480
I don't know that's that's gonna sell
one. She can't take a joke,

390
00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:18.960
but uh no, it's it's great. Well, here's my final three

391
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:22.680
questions to ask everybody. Bruce,
I'm really curious your answers. The first

392
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:26.359
is, what's the best piece of
career advice you've ever gotten? Don't take

393
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.839
yourself seriously. I think if you
think you're that great, you're not that

394
00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:34.880
great. There's always gonna be somebody
better than you anyways. And that's why

395
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:40.240
I like about the best thing I
like at the American Heritage is I like

396
00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:45.079
to see young people grow up.
The ladder, you know, and become

397
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.720
vice presidents or CEOs or CFOs.
And that's what I really like. And

398
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:52.160
I just enjoyed it, you know. I just I like seeing young people

399
00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:57.799
good above the ladder and young anybody
below sixty nine. It's a nice broad

400
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:03.119
definition of young people. You got
the opposite definition my kids, my kids,

401
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:07.839
anybody over twentieth old. I crossed
the band territory a long time ago

402
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:10.039
for my kid. I like,
I like your definition better. You're young

403
00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:12.599
under sixty nine. It's good.
My second question, what's the best advice

404
00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:18.680
you've gotten about the kind of consumer
banking credit union industry in general? I

405
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:23.240
think we're in a transitional stage right
now. I don't. I don't have

406
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:33.000
a clue. I think bitcoins destroyed
the confidence of what people were thinking as

407
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.400
money, and you saw how much
people lost. But people are still out

408
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.319
there freaking buying that stuff. It's
up to twenty three thousand today. I

409
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.720
said, what is wrong with you
people? And I don't. I think

410
00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:53.160
people are just so easy to put
stuff out their personal information that they don't

411
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:56.599
know what they're doing. And that's
my advice is they watch what you're investing

412
00:26:56.599 --> 00:27:04.680
to make sure it's solid maybe back
to fundamentals. Oh, absolutely absolutely if

413
00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:08.039
they don't regulate it. If I
don't, government doesn't regularly and I don't

414
00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:14.680
see it flying, but I who
notice the people do invest the bitcoin is.

415
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:17.039
I mean, I made a bunch
of money in bitcoin because I bought

416
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:18.000
one in like twenty twelve, just
because I was like, what is this

417
00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:21.119
thing? I got to figure out
what it is. I don't understand it,

418
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:22.720
and then I forgot about it for
like seven years, and that turned

419
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:27.359
out to be a really good thing
to have done it. It wasn't exactly

420
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:30.279
intentional, but I was like,
well, let's put let's put a thousand

421
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:33.200
bucks in and see. You know, I gotta go. You know,

422
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:36.880
I'm a big believer that you can't
really understand something. In my wife in

423
00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:38.400
her medical school, they had a
saying, you see one, do one,

424
00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:41.880
teach one. I kind of like, I can't understand it unless I

425
00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:44.559
do it, and better yet,
I teach someone else to do it.

426
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:47.480
My mom or my dad's when it
is a little less savvy in the technical

427
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:49.039
space, and that's like that's when
you really understand. So I was like,

428
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:52.680
I gotta go do it to understand
it. That worked out well.

429
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:55.319
For me, But I've never understood
the fundamentals of a lot of that.

430
00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:57.559
I kind of just look at and
go, what's the you know, I

431
00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:02.160
want to understand the basics and how
something is supposed to work. In those

432
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:04.160
same thing with a lot of the
you know, what caused the mortgage crisis,

433
00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:08.000
you kind of got away from the
fundamentals and these CDOs and CDEO squares

434
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:11.880
and you know, there was just
nobody can really explain to you exactly what

435
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:15.160
was happening and why and why a
bunch of junk bonds could become triple A

436
00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:18.559
bonds if you just pull them together. And I think when you get away

437
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:23.160
from the fundamentals, you start to
miss something. And can you explain what

438
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:29.799
blockchain really is that I can do
that's a that's a computer science concept.

439
00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:32.920
I can do that. All these
letters that they're out there, how did

440
00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:34.559
they get all the same mats or
a quickly? And I said, I

441
00:28:34.599 --> 00:28:37.559
don't know, you know, amazing, they're not all that quick. They

442
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.440
take you know, ten minutes,
fundy minutes sometimes to get to a point

443
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:44.400
where you feel confident that the chain
will be solid, which is you know,

444
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:48.039
if you compare that to the transaction
processing time on a credit card network

445
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:52.839
not so good. And if we
actually get FED now and some of the

446
00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:56.079
real time you know, interbank transfer
stuff, feel say, hey, that's

447
00:28:56.119 --> 00:29:00.240
like truly truly resolved transaction and seconds, which is which is not what we

448
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.200
really have even on the blockchains.
So I do think it will push the

449
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:04.839
state of the art, right,
it's going to force us to go,

450
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:07.519
Hey, it had these features that
were really nice, like, you know,

451
00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:11.039
like I could transfer money with no
fees internationally. That makes sense.

452
00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:14.039
We should be able to do that. There's no reason we got to pay

453
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:15.559
these I could do stuff instantaneously.
Yeah, there's no reason it takes three

454
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:18.720
days to settle an ach We can
we can. We can shorten that time.

455
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:22.599
And maybe we were as an industry
a little lazy in getting some of

456
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:25.160
those innovations, and it's going to
push us. But my sense is,

457
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:26.799
you'll, you know, if I
can get you know, real time bank

458
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:30.559
transfer, like, well, that's
pretty good. Maybe I don't need blockchain.

459
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:33.599
If I can have that in transaction
free international transfer things like that,

460
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:37.440
well that's what I'm hoping comes out, you know with the FED Now,

461
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:41.920
Yeah, it works. I don't
know anybody doing it. I don't know

462
00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:45.000
anybody doing it, I know,
but I know people talking about it,

463
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:48.640
and I know a guy working at
the FED working on it. So I'm

464
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:52.000
confident that well, that we'll get
there and it'll be you know, it'll

465
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.160
solve a lot of the pain points
for for regular people. UM So,

466
00:29:56.279 --> 00:29:57.480
my last question maybe maybe we veered
in this territory a little bit, but

467
00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:03.640
was always what's one bold adiction for
the future. So this is my so

468
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:06.079
I can bring you back in a
year and we can check in if you

469
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:10.400
would right or wrong kind of thing. The sun will rise. I don't

470
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:17.440
know how bold that's because it's going
on for a long time, pretty regularly

471
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:22.599
failed. I don't I don't change
will come. I think the more it

472
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.240
changes, the more it stays the
same. That's all I would say.

473
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:29.240
I don't think you're talking about going
back to basically, I think that's what

474
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:30.640
it ends up happening. It's just
become more of a basic type thing.

475
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:36.559
What is FED now, that's a
basic thing. It just people got involved

476
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:40.119
with it. Right. The more
things change, the more they stay the

477
00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:41.440
same. I don't know how I'll
exactly hold your future to fire on that,

478
00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:45.319
but I think it's a it's a
good bullet prediction. It is.

479
00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:48.400
I think some people think the world
is going to be upended, and I

480
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:52.240
think your maybe your statement is things
will change, but the some of the

481
00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:53.960
basics and the fundamentals are going to
stay the same. And that's I think

482
00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:57.079
an interesting perspective. All right,
Bruce, thank you for making the time

483
00:30:57.079 --> 00:31:02.359
today. I greatly appreciate this was
a we range from Bitcoin to Ukraine,

484
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:06.119
so I think we's a firefights.
We got to cover a lot of ground.

485
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:10.079
But I appreciate your joining us and
sharing your perspectives. Hi, brother,

486
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:14.880
take care. Thank you. Upstart
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487
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