Power of Collaboration: Maximizing Efficiency with Fintech Partnerships

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You're listening to Leaders and Lending from
Upstart, a podcast dedicated to helping consumer

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lenders grow their programs and improve their
product offerings. Each week, here decision

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makers in the finance industry offer insights
into the future of the lending industry,

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best practices around digital transformation, and
more. Let's get into the show.

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Welcome to Leaders in Lending. I'm
your host, Jeff Kellner. This week's

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episode features my conversation with Matt Pierce, the chief lending officer at Leader Bank.

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This is a fascinating conversation to me
as Leader Bank has actually built some

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software and house ultimately with spun out
and is being used outside of the bank.

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That was a fascinating twist on the
build by partner discussion. Talked about

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about how to think about where to
build, where to partner. They've also

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got some deep fintech partnerships with folks
like Cansino, where they were very early

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adopter, so kind of both where
do we build when it's helpful, when

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should we partner or buy when it's
not. They've gone really interesting in the

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cross selling and different kinds of products, including insurance, so I thought that

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was another interesting area of Avenue kind
of how they think strategically about that,

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and then also talked about their experience
during PPP where they actually dove into some

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of these topics of building workflow to
be really quick to adapt, easy to

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get at, easy to keep up
to date with the changing status of that

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program, which was pretty real time. So I think a really interesting set

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of experience is quite a bit different
than many other institutions. I thought it

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gives man a really interesting perspective.
So please enjoy this conversation with Matt Pierce.

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Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for
making the time to join us today.

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Thank you for having me. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited to talk

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about this. You guys have some
experience in fintech partnerships and also software,

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which was an interesting part of the
conversation when we first caught up. So

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I kind of wanted you to go
through a little bit of that story of

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things you've built in the bank.
It's fine out because it's such a it's

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such a different story. We hear
a lot about build versus by and you

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know, you know a lot of
people on the on the buy or partner

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side. Any idea of building stuff
that not only was useful for you,

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useflexternally was just such a departure from
so I really would love to hear the

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kind of the more full version of
that story. Sure sure so. Uh

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so we had a bank, being
a twenty year old bank, we've always

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been very technology driven, um,
always looking to kind of creating prially solutions

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for our clients that we see opportunities
in the market and probably you might be

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closer to seven years now, five, five, six, three years ago.

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Um, we saw our need in
the in the marketplace for really for

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the larger landlords that we were helping
finance. We started to hear a lot

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about um questions about compliance through the
cand to m scared deposits, whether they

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would him in it correctly. We
do a lot of the mouth by family

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finance thing. So um, we
just started to kay that trend a little

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bit. UM. Also, as
we're located in the Boston market, we

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decided to see trend where close to
a lot of the colleges, a lot

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of the times we'll get you know, three or four people living in one

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apartment. There's parents that will go
close high lease and they each one to

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pay their character and decided to become
a little bit of an administrative burden of

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their office or pocket manager. So
UH our team UM with the support of

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our CEO, Gay Tuli and I'm
sorry of UH CEO j jail Sulian President

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Kaytuli, we developed a software called
z rent and the Deposit and UH they

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essentially our act as UH fintech solutions
for UH collecting rents from multiple different fuses

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and also UH the escrow which is
a solution UH that helps with all the

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compliance and reporting for security deposits.
And there's two separate platforms UM and they

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they really have added a lot of
benefits and value to UM to those those

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markets. Really what it is is
we developed the software for side with z

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escrow, UH is where the sturre
deposits for the large property to come into.

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And it really gives a nice sub
account platform where all the all security

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positives can be under one household but
all has different suff account. It gives

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the tenant the ability to view where
they're security depositives, health, and it

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gives all the electronic beneits of getting
the W nine flow which is sometimes a

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challenge to be fined out the clients. It has all that technology right embedded

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in the software. Very very fluid, and it also takes the compliance headache

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off out of the property manager of
the landlord, knowing that Leader Bank will

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facilitate all the compliance, non contation, all the annual letters that to go

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out and interest checks that the tendant. All that's taken off the landlord put

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onto our platform and we handle all
of it at no cost as long as

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they're using Leader Bank as a deposit
customer the positive account. So it's a

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great upsell cross sell for us.
Use the rent a similar type of platform

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where its electronic where um landmload has
the four better apartment they can set up

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through their z rent platform and email
all the four tenants or fourth all their

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parents. However, you know,
if it's closed signers involved, they could

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each put in up individually their information, their banking information. It's secure and

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every month, whether it be through
their portal or automatically rent, it paid

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captured and reported and the positively to
the landload account and the landload has a

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full record of who paid what reconciliation
every month, all automated and uh spinach

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is a great feature that became very
common in Boston to have these multiple rent

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checks um and planiolive one was it's
chasing down the checks they only got three

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out of the four where the fourth
one this takes all that off the gable.

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So depending great glution. And the
nice thing about it is that it

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got to be so popular that we
we spun it out of Leader Bank into

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its own company, and I think
a nationwide and a lot of banks across

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the country, a lot of Boston
as well have have now become clients of

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that bockware and are using it as
a cross selling to do their client base

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to get the positive and obviously clans
all the wrong customers. So was that

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was that something you guys had in
mind when you started building? So I

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think as a company, as a
guy, spent a lot of time and

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companies doing software development like architecting for
the things you might build for just me,

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like I would hack some things together, tie some things with bailing wire,

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you know, internally, and when
you're building something for use by third

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parties, there is usually like quite
a bit more different architecture. You might

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take, different decisions you might make. So I'm curious that was something that

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was um, you know, in
scope or contemplated when you started building that,

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or that was just like, hey, this thing's really useful and other

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people could use it. I just
I think initially it was sort of a

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solution that we were going to try
to offer our own client base. Um.

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And as we started to promote it
more and more, I think decided

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to get a little bit more noticeability
in the in the marketplaces from other banks

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or other um, competing institutions that
and decided to take it throng own life,

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if you will. I think that's
when the bank isn't spin it out

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and have it be its own separate
company and really try to cross sell and

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uh and and make it own.
So it sort of took its own life.

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And uh well, I think initially
it was just going to be a

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vehicle that we could offer our client
base to make um, you know,

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add more value to it, uh
flop a problem and caxture deposits and obviously

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um you know, just not a
cross all of the service. But um,

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but yeah, it was a huge
demand nation wide. I mean that's

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what it really was. Um,
the Escrow really took I think it took

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it up to the next level because
there's so much escrow services. Yeah,

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that's just not a typical escrow conference
tree deposit. There's ten thirty one xcrow

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escrow. There's municipalities that have escrow
account for various funding. There's attorneys that

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have various you know for states,
and various other function so many different verticals

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under the escrow umbrella that we could
cater to UM and new the escrow with

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the great platform to deliverage. So
ever we use a friendly UM and so

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I coverage anyone to reach out to
the bank to uh learn more about it

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for their their own benefit or you
can. Yeah. So second question similar

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lines, but how do you think
about the build by partner discussion. Here's

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a case where you built which is
you know, unique and you know,

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but you've also have done partnerships with
FinTechs, I know even and it's you

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know, customer for many years.
And obviously I've always kind of laughed that

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the fintech bank partnership is a new
thing. I was like, well,

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the core systems have been around for
quite a while and most most of them

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are essentially fintech companies that that have
been you know, purchase software. How

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do you think about that when do
we do something like build a escrow or

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a z rat that's like unique in
the market. When do we partner with

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someone like it Encino or another player
in the fintech space it has capabilities we

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need. When do we just go
buy something off the shelf? How do

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you how do you kind of think
through that question? I mean I guess

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when UM, you know, when
when we decided to evaluate the commercial side

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of the bank UM and the workflow
and seeing we did discuss this developing an

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internal stopware or internal workflow that could
be automated to help with the commercial loan

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process. UM. At the same
time, you start kind of weighing out

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and it started seeing within the market, like to see if they're the solution

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out there that the cost benefit,
the time that we've got to invest and

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we have to do it. And
in sort of doing that restart just to

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kind of get idea, we came
across the Encino UM and we were one

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of the early UM blocking you know
early uses that they all doing sino ut

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for ten years and I think we've
joined them six plus years ago, so

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they were only you know, three
or four years old when we signed onto

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them. And the love theories I
think Encino had was that it was developed

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and built with commercial lenders helping design
it that really understood how a commercial transaction

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with multiple layers, complexities, guaranteurs, sponsorships, multiple pieces of collateral work

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and they understood that workflow and we
guess we're very impressed with how it operated.

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And that was the fastest solution.
We were growing very fast and the

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commercial side of the bank at that
giving time, and it was it was

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like a perfect solution that we got
on board and sort of solved the pain

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we were going through growing that bank
quickly and and signed on and h and

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again after about a year of work
really getting the system onboarded and again it's

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it's it's a can be a painful
process, just like any change in habit.

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But once the investment everybody a year
was made, we really started to

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see the fruits of our labor and
the efficiency of the workflow. And this

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was all pre pandemic and um I
think it was the best solution to solve

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the need we had at the time. And it's been a long term investment,

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but we're very happy with the fintech
partnership, the enhancements. As the

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evolution of commercial lending constantly changes and
the landscape of banking changers and different parameters

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such as analytical reporting, pricing,
model data. That's all the stuff that

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commercial lenders. We do it every
day, and the SEON make using their

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program you serve the need. So
it's been a great, great parmenter.

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Let me ask you made the comment
like it took a while, but then

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you saw the fruits of your labor. I think was the phrase with you

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know, efficiency of the workflow.
One of the things I've seen from a

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number of partnerships is a kind of
like I want, I want to say

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poor excuse because that's kind of a
mean way to say it, but that

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sometimes the results don't actually live up
to the expectations. And there's a kind

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of like there's a defining the right
partner and there's actually getting this thing deployed

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in your workflow, people trained and
get it taking advantage of it effectively,

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right, And I feel like many
projects fall down on the second part.

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They may find a great partner,
but they don't actually get the most out

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of it in the end. And
I'm curious if you have advice, I'm

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like, what what you think is
useful in making a project successful and actually

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reaping the rewards of what you see
versus finding a partnership and then it kind

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of like sits on the side or
doesn't get used or doesn't actually result in

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the kind of benefits you're looking for. That's a good question, you know,

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and we're all all with them in
the mindset if if if junk goes

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in un kind of come out of
it. So if you're not fully utilizing

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it correctly, efficiently, accurately,
you're not kind of get the benefit out

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of it. So, for example, one of our goal old were to

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have all of our financial due diligence
documents, all of our annual financial documents

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that we collecting customers, all of
our legal documents that we collect, any

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covenant test thing. We wanted all
that to be housed on the system.

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So my goal was that when we
get audited, like every bank does,

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that someone can just go on there
and all that data will be in there,

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index correctly labeled, correctly in the
correct spots, and believe it or

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not, that is the has to
battle with getting things in the system tiled

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correctly consistently. That it was a
nice organized library if you will, that

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someone could easily go into and that
is just a labor investment in making sure,

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we had team. We had a
team of folks and we still have

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that team ongoing because it's just an
opposing ongoing platform we use. That is

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their function is to download, upload, title, index these documents that we

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get documents in every day on deals
and that's their primary function. That's one

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of the primary function is to make
sure that's being done to systemly. So

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when we get audited everything, the
worst thing is that can ecking hear from

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an auditor, we can't find it
in the system. Job was driving crazy

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and it took a couple you know, a couple of years for everything that'll

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like cycle through as you get data. Right. But now that we're pat

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that pointing over the hump um,
we've had seller remote reviews from independent auditors,

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internal auditors and really have liked the
system, very used, the friendly

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everything is now organized, consistent.
We had a quality control check to make

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sure that everything that should be there
is there. So those are some of

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the um the UM I guess the
functionality of the responsibility that we need to

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have someone a volted fun but because
without that, you know, lenders or

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certain credit analysts may put things in
different spots, They may title something a

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little bit differently, So that's that
was a little bit of the profit we

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want to putting place. It's such
a key point because I think so often

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when we deploy a technology, there's
like not a enough for thought or ongoing

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iteration on how do we use it? How do we what's a name?

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I mean something that's simple, it's
like a naming convention or a foldering mature.

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Where do we How are we going
to use this tool for our workflow?

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So we're all doing it the same
way, because what you end up

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as often is like every small team
does it a little bit differently, and

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then you're trying to well, that's
that's what we're dimo avoiding. I can

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remember sitting in our conference rooms where
we all used to come in with our

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folders of deal right tact resurns or
any deals, fiece and all that stuff,

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and we were trying to get away
from that, and we wanted everything

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to be put into you know,
And I remember the first few meetings with

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the CEO and right, and it's
really easy to say, let me just

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pull up the tax returning Yeah,
we can look at it right here.

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But we remember saying we stopped it
one day and we said, we're gonna

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force ourselves to use it within Encino
and find it within And it was painful.

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Don't get me wrong. I was
a lender, so I would I

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said, lend me to show.
I just want to show. But we

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actually took the time and went through
some rederation, then some some pain point.

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Now it's very fluid. Everyone knows
internally how it worked where it is,

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and it's just made it a better
program, a better experience. And

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now we we have a lot of
folks in different departments too on boarded onto

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Encino, so we've integrated it with
a lot of different departments or efficiencies,

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communication notification, right down to accounting
to deposit offs. So it's um we

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rely on it very heavily. Now
very cool. But I had two more

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areas I wanted to dive into.
Then the next one I kind of wanted

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to hit was how you guys responded
during the pandemic to the PPP apportunities.

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I remember talking to a lot of
lenders that either availability of CAP through the

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program, or more importantly than like
rapid changing nature of the way it was

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going to work. What became a
challenge of just being able to actually execute

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you might have demand or desire,
but the ability to actually put a system

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in place and take advantage of that
and and serve the community was challenging.

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And I know you guys were pretty
big player in PPP, so talk about

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how you we aandage acts. I
think it's a it's a pretty interesting story

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how you guys actually we're able to
console those those needs of the consumers.

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It was no if it's a good
good topic. UM and UM, you

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know, hats off to our our
senior management with the support of the board,

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you know, really gave us,
you know, full, you know,

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full support to do what we use
to do from a technology standpoint to

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UM to take advantage of the program
as best we could for our clients and

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then open up the door to non
bank clients take advantage of and and help

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them. You know. So really
what we did is UM it was we

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knew we were going to have a
high volume A lot of banks did.

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We were on the early ones that
we were. We were lucky enough with

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our key supporting, our software engineers
that are on FAT that we were able

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to develop a workflow for PPP customers, ended all the website in house within

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if anyone knows that about PPT.
The information was being rolled out late hours

249
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days before was going live, so
we have the ability and to really pivot

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and have to make a decision quickly, and we were able to develop a

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whole workflow for pp eldibility a question
answered application. Everything was done online of

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course, and then eventually as we
got that off the ground and launched,

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we took us to the next level
and we created technology to help us with

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the guarantee securing process, which really
was the name of the game back then.

255
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As you were on with the time
POC it was only so much money

256
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and we needed to have an efficient
way to make sure that we were getting

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guarantee secured and we helped with the
help of our IKE department developed a technology

258
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along you know and UH and the
SBA was great giving us to support them.

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We needed to help us do that
UM and develop the software that we

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were able to get through a lot
more guarantees than we have a wad of

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Without that technology, UM and without
those guarantees, there was no no mull

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so UM and that was it.
That was it the face reality of it,

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and so we were very We were
one of the first lenders we to

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give a pepe P checkout in Boston. UM. If we google us,

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there's a picture of myself and the
CEO giving out the first check UM and

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UM. So it was you know
really UM. We were signed the nick

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An Impact right away and we knew
that we could turn things around quickly.

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We had pulled in resources from all
over the all over the bank, and

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all over the country actually because we
have we have folks working in different areas,

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training on underwriting, branding, on
security and guarantees, customer service.

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So it was really was a whole
bank effort. UM. The technology was

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key for workflow efficiencies and UH.
And then also when it came down to

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the pigiment process, which was the
other side of it, was we had

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to develop a whole workflow for PPP
pigodness, which we had done UM.

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And again this was all during a
pandemic kind so again everything had to be

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automated. Docky signed he's signing documents
UH, and we did. We did

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it all very quickly and as the
program change, because we had everything in

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house, we get tivot very quickly
on strategy. We were one of the

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few banks in Boston UM that hopened
up our doors to non Leader Bank client,

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and we were doing deals across the
country for you know, I did

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the small I did a seven hundred
kifty dollars fifty long I mean up up

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to the lige of dollar amounts.
So we we didn't say no to anyone,

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even if they didn't have a client. We thought it was our our

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time and our mission to help anyone
and everyone that we could and hopefully in

285
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and buying out of it. But
at the same time, it was the

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what we we did. The nice
thing about Leader Bank was we became very

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popular to at the end of the
program, folks maybe not don't know what

288
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MDI. We're considered a minority to
pustitution and STA At the end of the

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00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:23.839
program had carved out X amount of
millions dollars for MDI related banks that could

290
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continue lending PPP dollars when everyone else
could. So as the program sided to

291
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expire for other banks, were Bank
was one out of two players in Boston

292
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that had access. And we're still
keeping the program open um and so we've

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got popular very very quickly at the
very end because everyone knew that Leader Bank

294
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had access to scour and UM and
we could have should we could have shut

295
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down the program. We could have
said, look, you know what we're

296
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we've done thousands and thousands and thousands. We didn't. We say it opened

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right to the very end um.
You know, you get keen that's exhausted,

298
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working twenty four hours a day,
different lemonades a week. Everyone had

299
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the picky, but no, we
filed through and and end up being really

300
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a program and we pick a lot
of knights relationship out of it, which

301
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is you know, which is of
added bonus and loyal following from it.

302
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I wanted to ask, it's interesting
to me that you know, you get

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two examples here where you kind of
built something internally. I think a great

304
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example of like focusing those resources on
places where the solution and market isn't some

305
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:34.680
people focusing on we got to build
our own X rays. Not really you

306
00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:40.000
have limited resource focused on where you
have can really differentiation with the services done

307
00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:44.079
there aren't aren't what you need.
But you also seem to have developed a

308
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speed to execute or I mean PPP
is maybe a hyper example of that,

309
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but even around I think in the
zert And that's that's interesting because I think

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many institutions struggle to like committees and
oversight, and you know it's like they

311
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:00.000
may have the idea of, hey, we can do this better if we

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built some software to optimize the PPP, but it would be you know,

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I worked, I worked a large
software companies. Soon they go, oh,

314
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we'll have that out in nineteen,
in eighteen months and then we'll really

315
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:12.559
be twenty four, and go,
I don't have twenty four. I can't.

316
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Like we explained, we have a
lot of different examples for a lot

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of different uh could be products that
we developed or other partnerships that we maybe

318
00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:29.079
had partnered with other companies gone how
quickly we can execute our part So how

319
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:33.759
do you do it? What's the
secret? You know? I think local

320
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the digiton making has been key to
it UM and that's on across the spectrum

321
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:42.680
on you know, from approving a
deal to you know, approving a contract,

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uh for for a vendor or a
fintech that we're trying to humble it

323
00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:53.599
but having access the keynest digiton majors
um you know, technology has helped with

324
00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:57.759
that respect to you know, it's
a Friday afternoon and I need to help

325
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:03.559
on a quick zoom call with our
CEO and president to approve something it's they're

326
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.960
willing and able to and I think
that's that's half the battle, is making

327
00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:11.839
sure that someone's willing to be accessible
even if like if it's odd times.

328
00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:21.720
UM we do have UM uh we
have a great support team that had you

329
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:25.519
know, I always say there's a
work life balance, but we have folks

330
00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:30.480
that are just very uh goal oriented
driven. UM. We have we have

331
00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:34.640
a keeam actually that work uh in
India for us as well that the you

332
00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:38.720
know, related to the bank that
helps us a little bit of additional ammunition

333
00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:45.960
for app offs of support for threatened
past that we're doing so UM and again

334
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:48.519
I'll stay at EREM. During the
PTFE program, uh, we had so

335
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:56.880
much volume that we had folks and
India operation helping support and underwrite EPT long

336
00:24:56.920 --> 00:25:00.039
from the back end as well.
As we were sleeping, I would wake

337
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:04.599
up and check my phone and I
would see how many loans got processed overnight.

338
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.880
UM. So it really made us
a twenty four hour shop and it

339
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:15.039
still does. UM. So we
we've leveraged UM that operation where we can,

340
00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:18.839
but at the end of the day, it's multi The thirdre making has

341
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:23.839
really in key access to the key
decision makers. UM had made us very

342
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:29.119
effective UM. And I think that
separates us and not only in UM,

343
00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:33.319
you know, in partnering with FinTechs
or other than they're but like even on

344
00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:37.440
just on deal making with like loans, and I deleted the answer big loan.

345
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:42.559
I need this Friday afternoon. I
need an answer, a very fluid

346
00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:48.559
and I think that's where the larger
institutions maybe just the different layers or different

347
00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:52.440
complexity and their structures, they just
they can't move it just not. We

348
00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:55.960
want to ask one more question on
this, which I think the idea of

349
00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:57.839
local decision making to me is makes
a lot of sense. You push the

350
00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:00.680
decision making down to the like you
know, often that person has the most

351
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:04.359
information to make the decision. But
I feel like culturally in institutions, it

352
00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:08.960
can be hard to get people to
accept that because often there's like more risks

353
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:12.599
for having taken you know, it's
riskier for you to make the decision than

354
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:15.920
it is to defer up the chain. And I feel like, if you

355
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:18.160
really want to change thestititional behavior,
you've got to make it less risky.

356
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:21.400
And I'm curious how you do that. How do you get people at lower

357
00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:23.880
levels in the area or in distributed
places, to actually say it feels safe

358
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:27.319
here, to make a decision,
to push forward a little bit, to

359
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:30.880
call the CEO if that's what it
takes, or to say yes on this

360
00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:33.880
application, if that's what it takes. When you know, I think in

361
00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:37.279
many, particularly financial institiutions, there's
a hesitancy to embrace even if there's are

362
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:41.640
both who want local decision making,
Often the structures in the institution end up

363
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:42.759
saying, well, but yeah,
but if you screw up the decisions,

364
00:26:42.759 --> 00:26:45.000
you're gonna get a lot of trouble. So it's safe for you not to

365
00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.599
do that. And I'm curious how
you how you get the culture to actually

366
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:53.359
be accepting local decision making and embracing
up that as opposed to just I think

367
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:57.359
all the last couple of years we've
we've focused on that more because we bank

368
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:02.599
even during the pandemic, we hire
the number was we doing during the pandemic

369
00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:04.640
in the middle of we were hiring. We had about one hundred and forty

370
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:08.680
people that we hired during the pandemic. So it became, you know,

371
00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:14.680
Leader Bank was really grown from our
employee base um and what we cluckily we

372
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:19.359
did as senior management was. It
was communication with Keith and UH pushing during

373
00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:23.119
the pandemic when we were in the
office and we started meeting very frequently,

374
00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:29.359
if not once twice a week,
all senior managers, so we all knew

375
00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:33.240
what each other we're doing UM and
from our executive management, they were able

376
00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:37.319
to clearly share with us what the
expectation or the goals were, or the

377
00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:42.119
intent was and give some some direction. And I think that allowed all of

378
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:48.039
us to know how to execute and
know what had to be escalated or what

379
00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:53.640
was what we could execute as at
our department. That's that's something that we

380
00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:59.160
still continue to do. We do
now a weekly to senior manage from meeting

381
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:07.519
where CEO, President, all departments
share on what's happening in their own interview

382
00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:12.319
with proofs, and it gives opportunity
for UM UH executive management to share any

383
00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:18.079
of their UH updated goals where VID
the goals and UM. I think I

384
00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:23.839
think that's really helped because without that
knowledge of where senior management and executive management

385
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:27.440
want to go, and it's really
hot for us on a day to data

386
00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:32.880
manage our own victims. UM.
Yeah, So knowing some of that data

387
00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:37.480
and knowing it so UM consistently every
week. It allows us to run much

388
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:41.839
more efficiently. So if we were
if we were meeting quarterly like in some

389
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:45.559
to you do a quarterly you know, managers meeting, or you'd have to

390
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:48.519
be checking all the time because things
change and you know, especially over the

391
00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:53.640
last week in painting, a lot
of a lot of things changed and um,

392
00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:56.680
you know, a lot of questions
wouldn't be getting at. But with

393
00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:00.640
us, we were meeting so frequently
that um, we were all right on

394
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:03.759
the fingers, are right on the
pult with what the bank expectation, the

395
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:08.079
goals were, and where we needed
to be un certain deals or certain contracts

396
00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:12.240
or or whatnot. So I chalk
it up to your communication. And that's

397
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:17.279
something that we've really invested in,
not only amongst the senior management level,

398
00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:22.720
but christ employee base is trying to
make sure that the whole company knows where

399
00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:26.079
the bank are telling and what the
goals are, because that's something way to

400
00:29:26.119 --> 00:29:32.000
really move the ship. And as
um we've gotten a sword by verge from

401
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:34.359
so many people now outside the state, that's even more important to make sure

402
00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:38.960
that the culture is there, make
sure folks know what lead a bank is

403
00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:45.559
doing, what's happening from the financial
helping net to the bank to what the

404
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:48.839
goals of the bank are. And
I think that's really been something that we're

405
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:51.359
trying to just to drill home more
and more and we're signed to see the

406
00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:55.599
benefits of that that we're signed to
see all the articles going in the same

407
00:29:55.640 --> 00:30:00.640
direction and again and it's been working, so so we've got to continue doing

408
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:04.440
down doubling down on that. Excellent. Well man, man, There's three

409
00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:07.160
questions I ask everybody the end of
this podcast, and I think we're about

410
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.920
the time for that, so you're
ready for him. Yeah, here we

411
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:15.319
go. Number one, what's the
best piece of career advice you've ever gotten?

412
00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:19.960
I would say the best career advice
that I've I've gotten was to whatever

413
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:26.119
I was doing, master it,
master it, be excellent at it.

414
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:30.400
So if that was, for example, my job was to file document,

415
00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:37.599
be the best file document price than
there was me, clean, organized,

416
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:41.559
deficient. UM. That was one
thing and that was early on, even

417
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:45.359
before I got on the bank,
and that was he's the best you can

418
00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:48.599
at whatever role with it. UM. I will say the second keys you

419
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:53.200
know, advice that someone can give
me one time was just focus on the

420
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:57.640
now. You know a lot of
times I see in different careers that people

421
00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:03.079
are so quickly worry to get to
the next step, and it's so focus

422
00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:04.440
on the next step the knock.
Focus been on the current step of the

423
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:07.960
ring. And believe it or not, the current stupp of the ring is

424
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:12.359
so important to the fundamentals and the
foundation of their career. But sometimes they

425
00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:15.960
don't even know it. Like the
stuff they're gonna learn in that first job,

426
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:18.920
whether it be like a credit analyst
one or two or whatever, whatever

427
00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:23.559
role you're in, that information you
can carry throughout your whole career. But

428
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:27.039
if you if you don't have that
lockdown, you're gonna have cracks and your

429
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:32.039
foundation the rector of your career because
you didn't really truly have that foundation security.

430
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:37.920
And um that's in finance. But
that's ah, that's something that's uh

431
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:41.960
and I share that was our team
down is the master what you're doing,

432
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:44.839
learn it. Don't worry about the
whe The next step is right away.

433
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:48.599
You'll if you'll guess, there will
come. But um, just try to

434
00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:52.880
and that's h and that could do
that's the newer generation sometimes um, but

435
00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:57.480
um uh that's a big give avites
to all new new credit analysts and new

436
00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:02.240
boat summoning echoing Abraham Lincoln. Whatever
you're gonna be, be a good one.

437
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:05.759
But the kind of focus on the
now and be good at whatever it

438
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:08.480
is you're you're being asked to.
It is a simple. But sometimes the

439
00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:13.440
best advice is simple. But yeah, not easy. Yeah. Uh.

440
00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:16.079
Second question, I've got what's the
best piece of advice you've gotten or given

441
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:22.880
about the banking the consumer banking space
in general. Diversify the verse? Yeah,

442
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:29.960
diverse by and and you know the
timing of diversification is key over the

443
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:31.079
last you know, a couple of
weeks, what's happening in the in the

444
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:37.319
consum of banking world and and what
non fungural bank. Um. But diversification

445
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:40.720
I think is key. And um, you know all the clients that we

446
00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:45.680
have, we always talk about their
versification. It doesn't mean diversification, Um,

447
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:49.839
I mean you can't still be in
the same steca like for example,

448
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:52.319
if you're a real sambassor doesn't mean
you can't have more than one building.

449
00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:58.640
It's it's sometimes it's um spreading the
risk out amongst every type of building or

450
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.799
different types of industry streets. So
don't have all office, maybe have some

451
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:07.839
multifamily as, some office as some
mixed use. Um. That that level

452
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:12.359
of differ replication. And then obviously
on liquidity, UM, you always want

453
00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:15.440
to have a good good replication.
So the versification is key. It's talent

454
00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:20.920
um and um and it's really been
the name of the game especially and come

455
00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:23.160
to serve up in the last couple
of weeks. Um. But the reverstivation

456
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:29.200
is always prudent. And even in
our side of the world and lending banking,

457
00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:32.000
it's still the versification. You know, we don't want to have you

458
00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:36.119
know, when it comes to borrowing
a borrowing client, we want to have

459
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:38.160
a lot of borrowing clients, not
just one big one. You know,

460
00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:40.519
we don't. We want to have
a lot of the public customer. It's

461
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:46.119
not one big one. So um, the versification all right, And the

462
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:50.799
last question, what's one bold prediction
for the future. You know, well,

463
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:53.519
I'll answer in two ways. One
is on the on the pication.

464
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:58.039
On on the real estate side,
I think you know, um, I

465
00:33:58.359 --> 00:34:00.039
we like a stickure what we know, so we're sticking to the money that

466
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:06.039
we know well and with that it
gives us be able to predict that our

467
00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:08.719
assets they're going to be taked mean
that we're lending in markets that were we've

468
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:12.480
lent in for years, We know
them, we have feet on the ground

469
00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:15.639
in those faces. And I get
this comfort that where we know our portfolio

470
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:22.639
when our lending practice leaders will be
satan thumb um, you know. And

471
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:25.920
I think on the on the flip
side of lending is like on on the

472
00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:37.079
UM employee side, is that the
hybrid workflow or the hybrid UH employee day

473
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:42.360
is the future. UM. I
like to think that the old days of

474
00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:45.800
corporate America where everyone's in the offers, then it's like five days a week

475
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:50.679
in full days. Um, I've
got to come back. I don't think

476
00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:52.639
they have a will, and I
feel I actually feel bad for a lot

477
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:55.719
of the people that are now entering
the corporate world that now we're going to

478
00:34:55.880 --> 00:35:00.360
truly experience that. But I think
that it's the the way of the world,

479
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:05.159
and I think that we have to
embrace that, and we've done a

480
00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:07.440
good job of breaking it, but
I think if we have to continue to

481
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:13.199
embrace it but also keep in mind
trying to make sure that the connectivity of

482
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:16.760
employees and the culture of the bank, they impact. So that's kind of

483
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:21.719
I think going to be the new
challenge in the future of it's hobbit make

484
00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:29.880
sure that the culture across the country
they connected and whatnot. There. I

485
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:32.559
appreciate your making the time. This
is a lot of fun and I always

486
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:37.559
learn something from the cell. Appreciate
it. Help Start partners with banks and

487
00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:42.679
credit unions to help grow their consumer
loan portfolios and deliver a modern all digital

488
00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:47.039
lending experiments. As the average consumer
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489
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:52.679
sense that their bank does too.
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490
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491
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which od rates near zero. Upstarts
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492
00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:10.079
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493
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:15.760
and enhance your existing personal and auto
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494
00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:20.519
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495
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:24.440
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496
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:30.599
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497
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498
00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:39.920
and growing your business by visiting upstart
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499
00:36:40.039 --> 00:36:45.320
upstart dot com slash four dash banks. You've been listening to leaders and lending

500
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:50.480
from Upstart. Make sure you never
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501
00:36:50.599 --> 00:36:53.639
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502
00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:58.039
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503
00:36:58.480 --> 00:36:59.199
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