The Future of Small Business Lending

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You're listening to Leaders and Lending from
Upstart, a podcast dedicated to helping consumer

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lenders grow their programs and improve their
product offerings. Each week, here,

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decision makers in the finance industry offer
insights into the future of the lending industry,

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best practices around digital transformation, and
more. Let's get into the show.

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All right, Well, thank you
guys for joining the podcast today.

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I'm joined today by Chris Christopher,
Chris, Chris Pushcar, Chris Pushcar and

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Christina. And what constitutions are you
guys with with Eastern Bank? Okay,

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excellent? And you guys are on
the Small Business Banking Committee here it's CBA

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correct one, chair and vice chair, Chair and vice chair excellent. We

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got all the power and knowledge in
the rooms to be a great conversation.

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I know you guys had the committee
meeting yesterday and I want to talk about

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like the number one things that were
on your mind. And I imagine a

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lot of the conversation had to center
around the kind of disruption in the banking

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environment that's happened due to the failure
of Silicon Valley Bank, the failure of

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at your bank, how customers are
reacting, what are you what are you

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hearing from that? Well, what's
the reaction been to those things? Yeah,

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it was a big topic of conversation
yesterday in our committee meeting, for

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sure, And I think there's a
couple of different things, right, So

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one is how can we help service
those customers if they choose another financial institution

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that they want to bank with.
And then secondarily the safety and soundness of

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our own financial institutions and really working
on retention of our clients, and then

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the safety and soundness of the industry
as a whole. I think those are

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really the big things that came up
yesterday. With that, you have a

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lot of deposits moving banks, and
so you know, as you think about

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that, you want to be able
to take on new clients but also retain

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your own. And then you're also
worrying a little bit about fraud and people

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having you know, account takeovers or
fraudulent wires, so you're really trying to

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protect clients against that as well.
Say, how has the trend been in

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the I imagine there's this immediate like
I got to pull my money out of

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the banks that are you know,
that are feeling And then how has the

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conversation evolved with clients of your own
banks, or what you're hearing from other

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members of the committee in terms of
like withdrawing funds for all just going,

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hey, I want to move to
one of the big guys that feel like

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they have an almost explicit guarantee if
we're all deposits, Like, how is

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that is that conversation involved with clients? How does it feel right now?

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Yeah? I mean I think it's
different for each client, right, So,

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I think some you have a simple
conversation and talk to them about the

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safety and soundness of your financial institution. They're satisfied with that. Other cases

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they want to take advantage of more
FDIC coverage and they have a product or

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service that can help them with that. And in some cases they do want

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to diversify and they want to take
a look at multiple banks for their relationships

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and maximize their FDIC coverage. So
you really just have to have a conversation

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and find out what's right for that
client. Yeah. Yeah, maybe.

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What I would add is a lot
of the banking that we do is relationship

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driven. So the trust, the
knowledge of the bank, the presence in

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the community, they know, they
know us, they sort of what we

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stand for. And what we're about. The folks that I feel like have

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a lot of questions are probably folks
that don't have the relationship, is close

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of relationship or the media has really
spun this to their advantage and they're getting

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a lot of hits and a lot
of likes and a lot of job but

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not everything that's being shared is understood. So it's just piecing together and having

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a person that they trust that they'll
have the conversation much. Yeah. It

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also reminds me why this like underlying
nervousness about this whole experience, in that

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I feel like community banks, while
often maligned by online I think a lot

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of was like a digital experience.
The big banks kind of have an advantage

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in investing, but in the small
supporting small businesses where really you do rely

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on relationships. I really worry if
we lose if this causes us to weaken

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our community banks, our regional banks, it'll really weaken our support for small

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businesses generally that really rely on those
relationship based banks in their communities to support

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them. And it's kind of that
would be a real blow to our ability

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to support small businesses and economy generally. If we were to lose support for

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the community banks because there was nervousness
about deposits and that caused them to go

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elsewhere. It's start and what we
have seen actually in the business bank space,

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that is the spot they're moving the
least they're moving retail because they all

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get it so easy. Yeah I'll
just get something online and I don't really

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care. I want the insurance.
In the commercial side, right, they're

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likely dealing with the CFO, may
or may not have a relationship, and

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moving billions is easy because they can
do it in chrunches. But we haven't

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seen the movement in the business banking
space interstically. And I've seen some,

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but not not nearly to the degree. And we actually heard from Furry knows

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and that is industry. Um uh, don't so that from the industry.

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Small business deposits have been a little
more, a little more spread out between

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larger financial institutions community banks and some
online banks as well, and some smaller

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credit unions. So I think that's
good news for us as a whole company.

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Have there been any when you see
a lot of inflows and outflows?

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I mean, the number one thing
that my mind gets made because I come

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from the technology space is like fraud, and that just looks like a moment

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where I go, hey, as
an attacker is as a bad actor,

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man, this is a moment where
a lot's happening, a lot could fall

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to the crack. It seems like
a time to attack it, so to

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speak. Not that it's not advice
for any with the attackers out there,

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but it seems like a moment where
you have excessive risk compared to maybe a

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normal environment. How are you seeing
increase in fraud and how are people adjusting

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to kind of trying to support inflows
and outflows that need to be done to

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support those businesses and also be careful
about fraud when people are moving in large

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sums of money and our frequent basis, Yeah, we haven't really seen it

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yet, but we are concerned about
it, and I think the key is

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to really make sure you have really
good conversations with your customers and advise them

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of potentially what's out there. There
are some products and solutions on the treasury

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services side that can help you protect
against fraud, but a lot of it

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is just your own internal controls as
well, and so we really try to

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be be mindful of that and have
those type of conversations with clients and it

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is fascinating. The biggest fraud that
we see is count takeover, so they

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perpetrate, they act like they're in
the business owner, tell their CFO.

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Right. So it's a tricky spot
because it's it's still the advising guidance that

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when you're connected to your bank,
like if you're and you have some of

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the services, you either see it
or you don't open the email or right,

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you sort of prevent that that takeover. But should it happen, then

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the hope and the expectation from the
bank is, hey, can you just

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help us with this when you fill
in what we lost because we you know,

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obviously we didn't direct this to happen. And it gets back down to

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relationship and just that tight connectivity which
you can't get from the biggest or the

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finchecks. Like they're not offering relationships, right, they're offenising great services.

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But that is that is our strongest
suit. Interesting, I wanted to maybe

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pivot away from recent troubles to longer
term trends short and I'd love to think

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about, like what are the innovations
you guys are seeing happening in the SMB

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space, like what are new products, new offerings, new capabilities. And

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one of the things that got me
thinking about this was the experience during PPP

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where we really like implemented new processes
digital processes, often very rapidly, some

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more successfully those It felt like this
kind of like accelerated learning moment, say

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hey, we can actually do something
pretty different if we have to, and

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customers actually, I mean there's like
think MC guarantees and all sorts of reasons

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that was a different kind of program. But I do think that the capability

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to quickly access lending and funding was
a really interesting moment in time where we

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saw that, we saw how customers
reacted. Do you see that driving trends

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towards faster adopt Like, what are
the trends you see in the SMP space

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in terms of products? Yeah,
I think there's a few. I think

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you hit probably the number one spot
on which is you know, coming out

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of PPP, the digital experience for
the customer was really end to end and

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they really appreciated that because it helps
with have simplicity, it helps with the

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speed, and I think there's a
demand for that, and so I think

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you'll see an increase in that right
now, some banks have that it's typically

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for smaller dollar loans, but I
think that will continue to grow. I

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don't know if you get the largest
of the large loans ever done that way,

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but certainly there's probably tens of million
CR loans. Are probably not the

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ones going instant digital. I'm probably
gonna right because it will take building.

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They need a two fifty to five
hundred thousand. Those are things that I

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think that you could look at.
I think the other thing is we see

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a big spike in demand for SBA
lending, so really understanding the programs that

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are offered through the SBA is really
important for your institution so you can offer

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those to your clients. And then
we're starting to hear a lot of information

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around special purpose credit programs, which
are really set up to serve the underserved

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community within small business businesses that are
owned by people of color, women,

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veterans, LGBTQ, people with disabilities, and so those programs are gaining a

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lot of traction now and I think
that will be great for the industry as

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well. Do you have any thoughts
on much I had not heard this statement

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about SPA and are the SPCP of
special purpose credit programs. Well, do

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you know what's driving the demand?
Like is there something behind that or like

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what do you think is causing people
to be more interested in those programs?

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Right Nocause that's a really fascinating statement, and I was like totally unaware.

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So I'm just kind of curious what's
underlying that. It's our ability to serve

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more people most products. So it
just really opens up the number of folks

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that we can help because the guarantees
allow us to be able to be much

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more generous scrutiny like time in business, right, like we'd want to see

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more history with a traditional Yeah,
we can do more to help serve them.

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Yeah. I think there was some
information too that was obtained through PPP

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where some of those underserved communities weren't
provided PPP loans as quickly as maybe they

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should have through the funding process.
You know. I think that that put

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some heat and light on the industry
to make sure that we found a solution

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to help those borrowers. And so
I think that plays into also what Christina

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is mentioning and then the SBA trends. I mean, I think that there's

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some great programs out there that if
you partner well with the SBA on programs,

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you can probably lend more customers than
the typically would be comfortable with because

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they provide guarantees on the loans,
and so I think really trying to use

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those products to get more money out
into the small business community is essential.

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So I'm going to ask this question, how does one partner well with the

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SBA. I mean, I think
one of the big complaints I heard around

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PPP was just it changed a lot
and then the integration would like the guarantee

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is getting it was not easy.
And I feel like this is the same

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question I ask people about fintech partnerships, which is like, I feel like

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there's times that it gets that it
works well, and times that it kind

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of gets it's a great idea,
and then it doesn't go anywhere. It

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kind of sits on this shelf and
doesn't get used because there's not a good

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sense of partnership and like a real
operating rhythm. And so do you have

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you said that if you do SPA
partnership, So I'm curious, what do

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you have advice on how one does
partner well with the SPA or make these

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things more or less or if you're
approaching an SPCP and that's a very specific

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kind of program that I think can
feel risky or a little nervous people to

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emplay like how do you do that
well? Like what are the secrets at

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tips to like actually execute well in
that space. Yeah, I think with

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SBA, I think one of the
things is first of all, having a

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strategy around it. It's hard to
just sort of dabble in SPA lending because

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you really need to stay on top
of the SPAH make sure you're following the

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program guidelines, and so having a
strategy I think is core for number one.

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Number two, I would advise have
a good relationship with your local SBA

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office, can bounce questions off of
them or scenarios off of them, and

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they can provide you feedback and insight. And then I think you need to

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have good controls in place to make
sure that you're not putting those SBA guarantees

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at risk from the servicing work that
you do behind the scenes. And I

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think if you do those things well, it's a very beneficial program for both

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us and our customers. That's exactly
right. I agree with everything you said.

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What you when you get the experience
under like going from you know,

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doing a few to doing hundreds is
a very easy transition, and you have

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those controls and and the folks in
place that this is not a place where

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you try to reduce staffing and hope
that it all goes well. You staff

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appropriately, you follow the controls,
and you can really scal it very quickly

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in a meaningful way. Fascinating.
Is there a reason now that I mean,

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you mentioned PPP, but do you
think there's a reason that interest in

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these things is increasing at the moment? And I want to kind of wrap

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that in with a general question around
demand around small business line thing because you

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know, I think you've got the
committee was talking about some trends around demand,

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talking to a little about like what's
driving demand and why you think those

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programs are particular saying more demand now
as it driven buyer experiences and pp and

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the real PPP and the realization that
there's people out there that need these funds

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that we weren't serving before, or
is there some underlying business reason that people

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are kind of like, hey,
this is a moment to really invest in

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these things. Yeah, I mean, I think in terms of loan demand,

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just to start there, I think
that's a tricky topic right now.

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I think it's a very uncertain for
this year and possibly into next year because

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of all of the challenges right now
in the economic environment that we have,

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which is rising interest rates, inflation, labor shortages, supply chain issues.

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So the willingness or a desire for
small business to borrow money right now is

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a little uncertain because they're dealing with
uncertain time. So we'll sort of see

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where that lands. But I think, you know, when you think about

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the sp CPS and serving underserved communities
within small business, I think there is

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a demand for what we have sort
of already talked about. But also I

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think you know, SBA has also
come out and said they want to be

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able to help banks funnel more dollars
into the communities, both in terms of

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underserved communities but also just small business
in general. And so you know,

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really trying to think about ways to
get creative to lend more money to our

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customers who are in need, I
think is critical well said, and I

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think they want advising guidance, so
very more interested in taking time to spend

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with their bankers now and getting that. So we feel really good about making

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a difference in spending time and having
those interactions and is Chris shared probably your

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larger, more stable clients or funding
their own transactions and acquisitions or whatever investments

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are making in their business. So
it's a perfect balance because there's capacity in

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the market and this is a place
we can make it difference. Yeah.

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I do love that focus on making
a difference to the communities that the regional

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Community banks. It's just it's really
nice. It is. It's was one

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of the big surprises for me.
I was surprised. It's going to sound

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bad when I say it this way, but like coming from tech into banking,

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you kind of there's not always a
great perspective of tech in the world

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now generally, but of banking,
and you kind of you when you get

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inside the world of banking, small
business banking, community banking, consumer banking,

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and you realize that people are really
just trying to like that's not exactly

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living and gets a wonderful life,
but out they're trying to support the communities

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and businesses prudently, but as much
as we can. All right, I

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want to ask about one more technical
thing, which is I know there's a

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discussion about ten seventy one rulemaking final
rules for the uninitiator, not in the

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space. What is the ten seventy
one? What is the process is going

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on? And what are we talking
about there? Yeah, so if you're

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familiar at all with HUMDA, which
is I'm familiar with HUMDA, all right,

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we're a good starting point, yep. So they're trying to capture sort

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of race and gender information a time
of application and sort of trying to replicate

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something like that on the small business
side. Interesting, so when they can

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take a look at application data,
they can see then more clearly, you

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know, are there certain races or
genders that are not being served the way

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that maybe some others are right,
And so it's a way to really sort

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of safeguard that fair lending is taking
place as much as possible in the small

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business community. So we're anxiously awaiting
a final ruling. It's due by March

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thirty first, and so once we
get that ruling, we're right up against

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the wire. Once we get that
ruling, then we all have, we

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believe, eighteen months to implement those
processes, and you have to be able

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to capture the information upfront, but
also to be able to provide reporting the

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reporting on it exactly. Any thoughts
on what's going to follow on from that,

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because there's the kind of there's the
capturing the data, there's the reporting

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of the data, and then there's
the are we happy with what the data

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is telling us? And what are
we going to do about in the areas

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where maybe we're not happy? And
that's an area I mean, we've spent

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to be honest, that ups are
a lot of time because I think there's

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this very tricky issue, to be
honest, approval rates, actual credit worthiness

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of the underlying applicants, the applicant
pool versus the maybe demographic pool of small

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business owners in your community. What's
the sense of what follows on from and

254
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reporting on the data in terms of
actions or expectations about what the data is

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telling us. Yeah, I mean
I think it's a multi step process,

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right, So first is implementation.
Second, then you have to go through

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process of a period of time of
actually getting meaningful data. Won't you know,

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in the first few weeks, maybe
even in the first few months,

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you won't have it, but certainly
six months a year you'll start to have

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that data. I think it'll be
interesting for the industry as a whole.

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To see sort of where everything lies. And then as your own financial institution,

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how do you compare to the overall
averages? And from there you may

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implement strategies to do things differently,
to either improve things, or change things

264
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or tweak things. So I think
as a whole it's going to be a

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really interesting exercise, for sure.
I would add I agree they've been Chris

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said, that's why some of these
special purpose programs are so critical. If

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we can do these at the same
time and align those like, hopefully we'll

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all be happier with some of the
outcomes, for sure. So we're in

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New York State, So the first
move on it is we're interested to find

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out how consistent with ten seventy one
in term of implementation, because some of

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the things New York State wants us
to collect in New York is not legal

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to collect another places. How do
we marry the two together and make sure

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that the customer experience isn't wildly different
depending on in the banker's experience if you

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have a remote banker, where they're
coming in from. Because try really hard

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to do the right thing by everyone
at a time of application and sort of

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through fulfillment. So that the cadence
of some of the additional things being rolled

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out, it will be interesting to
see what we learn because New York State

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is going to go first. What
do we learn and then how do we

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hopefully learn and help is the ten
seventy one ruling continues to follow on a

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New York likes to be first.
DFS is a little a little aggressive on

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that, and it is difficult if
you operate in multiple jurisdictions to have you

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can have rules where you're required to
do this here and prohibited from doing it

283
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there, and that becomes very hard, particularly in a world where at least

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some of our transactions are virtually mediated. So maybe the banker is supporting customers

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in both states going I don't want
to do the wrong thing. I'm trying

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to do the right thing. But
man, it's not easy when the rules

287
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very so much does exactly right.
New scale that the technology that we will

288
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all use to support it, whether
it's you know it's now or you know,

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um, folks are doing a really
great job of helping build this in.

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It's going to take them time too
held it in, and so we're

291
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trying to do a bridge and sort
of them a manual way of doing it

292
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in the meantime. So we're hoping
for some grace in that period, but

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we're certainly all want to do the
right thing and do more loans in this

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space. Has anybody been looking,
I'm just you can just tell me know.

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But you know, there is the
like the CFPB you published the BISG

296
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methodology to estimate ethnicity, race gender
from applicant. You know, I think

297
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it takes like zip in last name
roughly um, And I'm curious if anybody,

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if anybody has been previewing what they're
ten seventy one results might look like,

299
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because you can, like, it's
not the same as collecting the way

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home it is, but you can
kind of like get too roughly the same

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point with approximations doing that at least
understand what does that look like. I'm

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curious if that's something the industry has
been like trying to get a preview on

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where they're going to land by using
some of that methodology. If you're just

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going to implement the final rulemaking and
then and see where we land. Yeah,

305
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I mean, I think it's hard
to speak for every financial institution.

306
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For my own personally, we absolutely
have and We've actually lost a special purpose

307
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credit program just a few weeks ago, so we had to get data from

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our institution to justify the program and
get it approved. So we definitely did.

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I would be surprised if most institutions
aren't either thinking about an SPCP or

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at least preparing for ten seventy one
and saying, you know, give me

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an estimation of sort of how we
fall here, where do we think we're

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going to land to start? But
we did a similar think being with the

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New York statedf so we had to
get out in front of it. So

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we are feeling good about you know, where we're at and some of the

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initiatves we were taken in that space
as well. Awesome. Well, let

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me as we come to the end
of this conversation, what are other big

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trends or topics we should talk about
when it call it comes to a small

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business bank. I mean, we've
kind of had the things are on my

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list, but what's is there anything
else that's top of mind for you guys

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or you think that's a big emerging
trend it's going to be impacting the space

321
00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:59.079
the next year or two. Yeah, I mean, the only thing I

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can really think of other than what
we've spoken about is really just providing customers

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information, right, And I think
we think a lot of products and services

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and we need to do that as
well. But I think small businesses are

325
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looking for information about how to run
their business more effectively, more efficiently,

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how do I grow? And so
a lot of banks are thinking about education

327
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for their small business clients. And
that can be done through a website,

328
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:26.160
it could be done through seminars,
it can be done through your sales staff

329
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and making sure they're educated to be
able to have those types of conversations.

330
00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:33.000
Most likely banks are probably looking at
all the above in some way, shape

331
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or form. But I would think
that would be the other big trend in

332
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the industry that I think we're looking
at over the next year or so.

333
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:42.400
That's spot on, I would I
would say. The thing I would add

334
00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:48.640
is it'll be really important that we
help navigate customers through these inflationary times.

335
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:52.000
Just Chris shared some of that we
talked about yesterday. This is a really

336
00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:56.720
difficult time for a lot of small
business owners. But whether they borrowed and

337
00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:00.640
now it's just so much more expensive, or the labor how do we help

338
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:07.319
through the advice and guidance and education
navigate probably just like all the banks,

339
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:10.519
not all the small businesses make it. But how do we do our part

340
00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:14.400
to keep them as successful for as
long as possible, or how do we

341
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help them find other partners to maybe
come together with our industry experts, Like

342
00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:23.279
how do we do our part to
be the convener so they can continue to

343
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run their business? Yeah, it
is kind of It is crazy to think

344
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about the economic environment that we live
in. It's very disruptive. And I

345
00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:37.279
saw this really ridiculous to me comment
somewhere that like, you know, depositors

346
00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:41.039
should lose their money in the context
for bank run because it was their job

347
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:44.440
to be choosing the bank they worked
with. By looking at the finance,

348
00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:48.039
I thought, your perspective is that
the CFO of a small business should be

349
00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:52.440
looking at the balance sheet of local
banks and determining who's making the most prudent

350
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:56.200
risk management decisions in terms of interest
rate risks with their excess deposits, and

351
00:21:56.200 --> 00:21:57.960
that's the balance on the system.
Is Like, I think they're just trying

352
00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:00.599
to figure out how to manage their
own sheet through this, and they're not

353
00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:04.559
so worried about it because it is
it's kind of unbelievable think that we're supposed

354
00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:07.480
to be looking at the interest rate
hedges that SPB maybe could have put on

355
00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:11.440
the bonds that were buying, or
whether they were buying too many long duration

356
00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:12.599
bonds at too low of a time, Like, yeah, I don't think

357
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:17.519
that was a small They get their
own things to worry about. We should

358
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:19.000
be helping them through that as opposed
to asking them to be our safety and

359
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:22.880
soundness check on the asset management the
bank they're working with. Well, and

360
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:27.240
you hear some conversations too around well, these businesses shouldn't have had more than

361
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:30.799
two hundred and fifty thousand than any
one institution, and it's very difficult for

362
00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:33.680
small businesses to do when they're working
about, you know, making payroll,

363
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:37.680
paying their vendors, they have money
coming in, Like it's not just easy

364
00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:41.640
to park two fifty or two fifty
or two fifty here. So I think

365
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:44.519
to your point, you know,
they make the best decisions that they can

366
00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:47.400
with the information there they have,
but you know, they're worried about running

367
00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:49.839
their own small business and they wear
multiple hats within that, so it's tough

368
00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:52.880
for them to keep track with everything
that's happening to the mark in the banking

369
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:57.680
and environment. Yeah, yeah,
and I totally agree, And I think

370
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there's this kind of weirdness to that
answered, like wow, they should have

371
00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:04.799
opened accountable like that just is very
strange to me. Regulatory arbitrage that's taking

372
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:08.599
place that doesn't doesn't really meet the
spirit of what the insurance has meant to

373
00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:11.599
do, like, oh, I'll
actually ensure all your money just work with

374
00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:15.079
a whole bunch of different banks and
spread it around Like that feels weird,

375
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:18.359
and so I just wonder if there'sn't
gonna be some change in the way regulars.

376
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And I don't like you guys say
this, but I think if we're

377
00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:22.240
saying, hey, well we really
introduce just open up accounts with ten banks

378
00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:26.240
and then somebody's going to come in
and be a digital layer that like automatically

379
00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:29.400
spread your money that we've just we're
not really adding anything. We've just added

380
00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:30.799
a whole bunch of complexity to the
land in the same place, and we

381
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:33.480
ought to find a simpler way to
help people. It is true, like

382
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:37.480
doesn't take a very large business to
need more than two hundred and fifty thousand

383
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:41.480
just to make monthly payroll, let
alone accounts receivable or invoice payments for a

384
00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:44.319
different thing, like, that's not
that much money in the context of a

385
00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:48.359
business is paying a decent number of
people, and I don't think it's unreasonable

386
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:51.119
for them to expect when they put
it into Like I was kind of stunned

387
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:52.920
when my financial advisor called me and
said, Jeff, we got some money

388
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:56.559
in the check account. We want
you to move it out because it's safer

389
00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.920
in a money market And I thought, Man, what world do we come

390
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:02.680
to where I'm getting the advice to
pull my money out of a checking account

391
00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:06.200
and put into a money market account
for safety, not for yield, for

392
00:24:06.200 --> 00:24:10.480
safety, And I thought, well, that's that's an interesting It's an interesting

393
00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:12.400
time, and I think we're going
to have to support the small businesses and

394
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:15.359
the consumers that like consumers about more
than two fifty thousand dollars in the bank

395
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:19.720
account, I feel like are relatively
savvy typically and understanding the risks are taking.

396
00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:22.960
But the small business that's not a
massive business, and it does not

397
00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:26.000
make sense to me that we're putting
them at the risk for Like, having

398
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:30.079
looked at the balance sheet and the
different asset purchases, by the bank that

399
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:32.880
they're working with. That just seems
crazy. Yeah. Absolutely, and it's

400
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:34.319
fluid. It's not like they put
it in their ones and set it like

401
00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:38.319
to continuously expect the small business owners
to look at all the transaction. Yeah.

402
00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:41.680
I pull up that quarterly report in
my bank every every quarter and go,

403
00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:45.200
hey, what what are you guys
doing? I mean tread ten year

404
00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:48.000
treasuries? Why we should be in
the twos and being the twos man?

405
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:51.839
It's the interest rates are moving like
that. I don't I think that's the

406
00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:55.640
right expectation. Well, thank you
guys both so much for joining to say,

407
00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:57.119
this was a fascinating conversation. I
certainly learned a lot. I'm sure

408
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:00.240
the audience as well, So I
appreciate you to tech the time to do

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00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:03.400
it. Thanks for having us.
Upstart partners with banks and credit unions to

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help grow their consumer loan portfolios and
deliver a modern, all digital lending experience.

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00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:14.359
As the average consumer becomes more digitally
savvy, it only makes sense that

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their bank does too. Upstarts AI
lending platform uses sophisticated machine learning models to

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00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:26.400
more accurately identify risk and approve more
applicants than traditional credit models with fraud rates

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00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:32.720
near zero. Upstarts all digital experience
reduces manual processing for banks and offers a

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00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:37.799
simple and convenient experience for consumers.
Whether you're looking to grow and enhance your

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00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:41.920
existing personal and auto lenning programs or
you're just getting started, upstart can help.

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00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:47.279
Upstart offers an end to end solution
that can help you find more credit

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00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:52.759
worthy borrowers within your risk profile.
With all digital underwriting, onboarding, loan

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00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:56.799
closing, and servicing, It's all
possible with Upstart in your quarter. Learn

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00:25:56.839 --> 00:26:02.640
more about finding new borrowers, enhancing
your credit decisioning process, and growing your

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00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:07.240
business by visiting upstart dot com slash
foward dash Banks. That's upstart dot com

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00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:12.440
slash board dash Banks. You've been
listening to Leaders and Lending from Upstart,

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00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:17.160
make sure you never missed an episode. Subscribe to Leaders in Lending in your

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00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:21.160
favorite podcast player using Apple Podcasts.
Leave us a quick rating by tapping the

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00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:25.119
number of stars you think the show
deserves. Thanks for listening. Until next time.